[00:00] Opening and Show Introduction
Patrick Francey (Host):
Hi there, and welcome to The Everyday Millionaire podcast. My name is Patrick Francey, and I am your host. I want to begin by saying thank you for listening.
On this show I have conversations with seemingly ordinary individuals who have achieved some amazing and extraordinary results in both their life and business. My intention is to inspire you and help you learn and grow by having my guests share their journey, how they face and overcome their challenges, and how they celebrate their wins.
Let us get on with the show and have a conversation with today’s guest.
[00:42] Introducing Nick Jonsson
Patrick:
My guest today, Nick Jonsson, is someone who is making a meaningful impact at the top levels of leadership.
Nick is a global keynote speaker, international bestselling author, and recognized as a leading thought leader on executive loneliness. For the past decade he has been breaking the silence on issues leaders rarely admit to – isolation, burnout and addiction.
What I appreciate about Nick is that he does not just point to the problem, he has built a framework for the solution. His model of holistic leadership integrates the physical, mental, emotional, psychological and social sides of life with the realities of professional responsibility. He calls it the five step holistic leadership model – surrender, connection, purpose, goals and discipline. It is a practical roadmap leaders can use to achieve sustainable performance without sacrificing who they are.
Nick’s credibility is not academic only. He is a certified master coach, a sober coach, more than seven years into his own recovery journey. He has been there, done that. He is trained in Belbin team coaching, psychological safety, and is finishing postgraduate studies in psychotherapy and counseling. He is committed to learning and to helping leaders thrive.
His book, Executive Loneliness, became an international bestseller, and his TEDx talk has inspired audiences around the world. Along the way he has earned recognition such as the Sabre Provoke Award for Southeast Asia and finalist for International Mental Health Campaigner of the Year in London.
Today he speaks on global stages, leads transformational retreats and works with organizations around the world to build cultures of connection and resilience. In this conversation we dive deep into what it really takes to lead in today’s world and how Nick’s approach can help us all create balance, connection and results that last.
With all of that, let us get this show started. Listen in, enjoy.
Nick Jonsson, welcome to The Everyday Millionaire podcast. Thanks so much for joining me.
Nick Jonsson (Guest):
Thank you so much for the invite, Patrick. Excellent to be here.
[03:07] Who is Nick and what does he do?
Patrick:
Nick, your bio is impressive and covers a lot of ground, but I like to start from a simple place. If someone bumps into you and says, “Nick, what do you do?” how do you answer that when your bio is that extensive?
Nick:
It is a tough question and it depends when you catch me. If you catch me today, I am in Phuket, Thailand. I am a triathlete, and I am also heading into my office for a day of calls – coaching and therapy sessions, mainly with men, helping them with everything from preparing for the boardroom to sorting out their lives outside of work.
What I would love to say is that I am someone who is giving back. I turned 50, and at that stage of life I would like to feel that I am useful.
Patrick:
Fifty is a great age. I felt like I was just getting started at 50. I am well beyond that now, and 50 is an awesome milestone. Good for you.
A lot of your focus is on leaders, primarily men. For me, leadership is about a journey of self discovery. To really raise their game, leaders have to understand themselves, recognize blind spots, see where they are operating on old beliefs. But I do not want to put words in your mouth.
When a CEO comes to you and says, “Why should I work with you? How do you approach leadership with me?” what does that look like?
[04:47] The Life Audit – A Holistic Starting Point
Nick:
I always look at the holistic life. I like to see all the bits and pieces.
Typically I start with a life assessment and self assessment – almost like an audit. If you have a business, you do an audit or stock count. But how often do we honestly do that for ourselves?
We look at all parts of life, not only business and career. How are my romantic relationships? How are my relationships with family and friends? What about my health – physical, mental, social?
I ask people listening to do that for themselves. On a scale of one to ten, one being lowest, ten being highest, where are you in each area? Lay it out. It does not take long, but it is an honest look at where you are right now.
Then we look at where you want to go – what is your desired score in each area? Once you see the gaps, you have a quick life audit right there.
[05:54] Why Men Call – Crisis, Not Curiosity
Patrick:
So if I am approaching you, am I coming because I want to be better, or because I am bumping up against something I cannot unpack and my team is telling me I have blind spots?
Nick:
Most of the men who come to me arrive after something has happened.
It might be losing a job. It might be that the wife has kicked them out of the house. It might be that they have been caught by the police after having a few too many drinks and spending a night in jail. Something like that happens and they realize, “I have to sort my life out.”
Many of them are high achievers, very successful in business. Perhaps they put all their focus on the business for 20, 30, 40 years and ignored other areas of their life. Then something happens. That is usually when I get the call.
[07:27] Success, Money and Life Going Off the Rails
Patrick:
I was just talking with a friend about success. On this podcast I talk to people whose businesses are worth hundreds of millions. They have clearly done a lot of things right.
Financially they are hitting it out of the park. But almost every one of them shares a story where things went off the rails. They realized it was not just about dollars and cents. Money became a way to keep score, but it did not define success.
You are a triathlete – you are racing against the clock, maybe against other people, but essentially you are chasing a time. That is your “score.”
When you talk to leaders, do you have a definition of success, or a context you provide for them? I actually stopped asking guests, “How do you define success?” because answers were all over the map.
Nick:
I put it back to my clients. In that self assessment, business and career is one of the categories. I ask them to rate themselves.
Typically business is eight, nine or ten. It is the highest score they have. Many of my clients are in the hundreds of millions, and I even work with one billionaire in Singapore.
When you ask them why business is successful, they tell a beautiful story. You can see them light up. They are passionate about what they have built.
Then you ask, “Where do you want to go?” and they say, “I am happy with the business. It is the other areas of life that are falling apart.”
Everyone has to define their own success in business. For me, success is about passing it on and giving back.
For example, as a professional speaker I am part of the Asia Pacific speaking association. This year I am mentoring nine upcoming speakers. We have monthly group calls and I support some one to one. At the same time, there are speakers ten or fifteen years ahead of me, billing fifty or one hundred thousand dollars a day, who are mentoring me – everything from contracts to positioning.
I believe we should always be surrounded by people ahead of us who can inspire us and lift us, and at the same time we pass on what we learn to the next generation. If I do that in any field, that is success to me.
[10:49] A Simple Definition of Success – Are You Living Your Vision?
Patrick:
You have a definition, and I will share one of my favorites. I had a guest who gave what might be the best answer I have heard.
I had actually removed the question from my interview list, but for some reason I asked him, “How do you define success?”
He said, “When I wake up in the morning, before I open my eyes and start my day, I ask, ‘Am I living the vision I have for my life?’ If the answer is yes, that is success.”
He does not measure it by dollars. He measures it by the vision he has for his life – family, finances, business, relationships, physical health, mental and spiritual health. Very aligned with your holistic view.
We were also talking about someone whose business does two, three, five, ten million a year. They pay themselves well, have a great team, great family and lifestyle. That can be success, if it matches their vision.
So with leaders, one of the big questions is: do they have a vision for their life that is not just “I want to make 100 million” or “I want to build a billion dollar company”?
[12:27] From “Work Life Balance” to “Life Balance”
Nick:
Yes, it comes back to balance. The term “work life balance” implies work is 50 percent and life is 50 percent. That is how many of my clients have lived.
Business is 50 percent and the other things – finances, health, family and friends, romance, personal growth, spirituality, fun and recreation, physical environment – have to fit into the other 50.
No wonder the work score is high and the rest are low.
I talk about life balance. If you think of a wheel of life with eight parts, each part is 12 and a half percent. Business and career should be 12 and a half percent. Then it is balanced.
Patrick:
I often say the same thing in a different way. People tell me they want “work life balance” and I say, “There is no work life balance. There is just life.” Work is a part of it.
The real question is, how are you orchestrating your life? How are you leaning into it? What are you doing with it?
[14:01] Peer to Peer, Masterminds and Men’s Groups
Patrick:
Before we hit record you and I talked about peer to peer groups. You mentioned bringing speakers together and then working with them one on one.
Is that essentially peer to peer support – in this case for speakers who want to be world class?
Nick:
Yes, you could call it peer to peer or a mastermind. That support came from my background running peer networks.
My wife and I have run another business called EGN, Executives’ Global Network. It is not for CEOs, but for senior executives one or two levels below. It gives them a safe space to discuss work related challenges.
From that I realized we also need something similar for our personal lives. EGN focused 100 percent on business challenges, which is wonderful, but we also need safe spaces for our inner world.
These days I have a men’s group with 22 men. We check in daily on WhatsApp. We share gratitude lists, challenges, what we are going through. We are vulnerable. Two members recently lost their mothers. They shared that and we have been able to support them, hold space for their grief.
Without that, men tend to bottle up emotions, keep everything inside. Having these safe spaces – for business and for personal life – is critical.
[15:26] Men’s Groups, Vulnerability and Long Term Connection
Patrick:
I love the concept of working with men specifically. I have run men’s groups myself.
What I always love is when a formal program ends and I see the men continue together as friends and leaders. Sometimes they even invite me to drop in. That is success for me – they have formed relationships where they can show up, drop their guard, be authentic and vulnerable, share what is going on and know it will land well.
For any men listening: find a men’s group. It is powerful. I think the same is true for women, but we are talking about men here. And men traditionally do not seek that out. They try to do it alone, and I think that is a detriment.
I love that you bring that in and fold it into your work.
So let us go back and talk about your own journey. You have accomplished a lot and you are still a young man with big visions and dreams. How did you get to where you are today? Give us the short version.
[17:01] From Swedish Construction Worker to Global Executive
Nick:
Here is a short summary.
I was born in Sweden. Until age 22 I was a construction worker, a painter, in a blue collar family. I was born on May 1, which is Labor Day in Sweden. My parents were proud – “Here is the hard worker.” My dad was in construction so me becoming a painter was natural.
That was my life until 22. Then one day I was riding my motorbike, got hit by a car, injured my neck and back. The doctor said, “You cannot continue in that job.”
That is when I hit depression for the first time. I lost my income, my work, my colleagues and clients. I did not know what to do.
I felt isolated. I had not been a good student. I barely finished high school. I had to go back to adult high school to redo some grades so I could get into university.
It was that hopelessness that really sent me into my first depression.
[18:37] The Pull to Australia
Patrick:
You then went to Australia. What was the pull?
Nick:
My first language is Swedish, second is German. English was third and I struggled with it.
I could not really get it in Sweden, so I started looking at Australia, the UK, the US, Canada as places to study abroad in English.
Australia attracted me. Coming from dark, cold Sweden, I wanted a hot, sunny place. The Gold Coast looked attractive in the pictures, so that is where I went.
[20:18] Leaving Home at 23 – What Was Really Driving You?
Patrick:
As I hear your story, you are 23, coming out of a trade background, you have a life changing accident that sends you into depression, and then you pull up stakes and leave your family and culture.
I always find that fascinating. I see that as a unique character trait.
Do you remember what you were saying to yourself back then? Was it, “I am capable of more”? “I want more”? “Sweden sucks”? What was going on internally that pulled you away from your family and friends?
Nick:
Part of it was wanting to get away. I had a demanding, critical father. We had our ups and downs.
I had moved away from home at 17 and become independent. I had a dream of moving overseas for years. Even as a painter I applied for jobs in Dubai as a paint instructor in the pipeline industry, but I always fell short because of my English.
That is how the idea of studying abroad came. If I could get a degree overseas and master English, I could get those jobs – use my painting skills as an instructor or manager and build a career.
So it was a mix of wanting distance and wanting to grow.
[22:32] University, Golf and Early Entrepreneurship
Patrick:
When did the entrepreneurial part of you truly kick in? University is not usually a classic entrepreneurial path. Was it there already?
Nick:
It was there all along. I studied at a private university with small classes and very practical, hands on education in marketing and advertising. I loved it.
On the side, I played a lot of golf. I lived on the golf course. I was president of the golf club and captain of the school team, traveling around Australia to play.
I had to pick the team, organize events. We had over 400 golfers at the university, weekly tournaments and a big annual tournament where we raised significant funds for charity. We had celebrities like Olympic swimmer Grant Hackett playing.
The dean of the school was proud. It was the biggest event of the year and I was recognized for it.
So throughout university the entrepreneurial Nick who used to get painting clients came alive in a new setting, and that is where I really started to flourish.
[24:11] Sport, Socializing and Alcohol
Patrick:
You compete in triathlons today. Were you always wired as an athlete?
Nick:
Yes, but I really started to enjoy the fun of it in Australia.
I was not the best golfer, but I was the one who held it all together – organizing, bringing people together.
But there was a dark side. On hot, sunny days I would enjoy a couple of beers on the course, then more beers in the clubhouse, playing pool and socializing. My life started to revolve around that.
From a business viewpoint that is also where relationships and deals were built. So it worked as business development, but increasingly the drinking took a toll.
I brought that pattern into my corporate career in Asia – starting in sales and business development, doing client entertainment. I was very good at it, but did it at the cost of my health, with too many late nights and too much drinking.
[25:41] Sobriety and the Downward Spiral Before It
Patrick:
My memory is that you quit drinking. Is that right?
Nick:
Yes. I quit almost eight years ago, due to hitting rock bottom.
In those corporate jobs I did a lot of entertaining, hosting clients from around the world in Asia. I enjoyed it and I was good at it. But I did it at the expense of my health, because I did not set healthy boundaries.
I worked hard. Then I mixed that with late nights, poor sleep and constant adrenaline.
Eventually I developed hypertension. I did less and less sport. I gained about 60 pounds around 2017–2018, which made me stop most exercise.
You could say I traded my gym membership for a bar stool and my healthy diet for fast food and pizza. That put me on a downward spiral I could not escape from on my own.
[27:48] Executive Rock Bottom – Resignation and Divorce
Patrick:
Let us go to what you call rock bottom in more detail. What did that look like?
Nick:
Back in 2015 I was in my best paid, biggest job, in Indonesia as GM for hospitals and clinics. Outwardly I was performing well, hitting targets.
Inside, I was falling apart. I had been driving too hard and not cleaning up after myself. I felt I was not delivering as I should. I became insecure. There was conflict and I did not know how to deal with it. I lost confidence, became anxious, had panic attacks.
I became certain I would be terminated out of the blue. Once that thought lodged in my head, I could not shake it.
I started dreaming about other entrepreneurial jobs and roles. I drafted a resignation letter and carried it with me for almost a year.
Eventually I handed it in. I resigned without any real conversation with the company. My boss and I were close – we had Sunday barbecues together – yet I had not shared anything.
When I resigned they said, “Nick, what is going on? You are a top performer. If you do not like Jakarta traffic, we can move you. We have roles in the US and Dubai.”
But I was mentally somewhere else. When they challenged me, I just walked out and did a poor handover. I was gone.
At home, my then wife of 13 years asked, “What is happening? This is the role you have been working so hard for. It is your dream. What is going on?” I could not have that conversation either. Instead I filed for divorce.
So suddenly I was without job, without wife, isolating myself and cementing myself on that bar stool.
[29:53] Turning Pain into Purpose
Patrick:
When you reflect on all of that now – given that you are working with leaders and achieving great results – do you feel grateful you went through it? I know in my own work, my past experiences give me empathy and perspective.
Nick:
Yes, absolutely.
Most of my clients come to me at a similar juncture – something big has happened and they are ready to resign or walk away.
I do not give advice. I coach. But I often ask them to put major changes on hold for a while and keep collecting the paycheck while we work together.
Many of them, one two three years later, are still in those roles, sometimes promoted. Some do leave eventually, but from a much healthier place, with options and honest conversations with their partner.
My experience means I can see the pattern. I can invite them to consider paths that are better than the one I chose at that time.
[31:54] Couples, Partners and Safe Spaces
Patrick:
Do you work with couples directly or mostly one partner?
Nick:
I typically work with one party and then partner with others who do couples therapy.
If something is happening between partners, often the man will work with me and the woman will have her own coach or counselor. Then they come together as a couple.
We need to hit the issue from both sides.
[33:16] Behind Every Successful Man…
Patrick:
There is a saying that behind every good man is an amazing woman. When you interview successful people they often say, “I am successful because I have an amazing partner.”
Is that how you see it?
Nick:
Absolutely.
I am now happily remarried. My sobriety date is almost eight years ago and I got married that same month.
I would not be where I am today without my wife. And I am a very different Nick in this relationship.
She met me when I was coming out of rock bottom, when I had become open and vulnerable. In early 2018, when I could not handle it anymore, she was the person I chose to open up to while we were dating.
It was thanks to that honesty that we got married. Now we have a relationship where we support each other through good times and bad.
I did not have that in my first marriage. When things got hard, I did not see my first wife as part of my safe space. I did not open up. We did not have those conversations. So when I struggled, I could not express myself to her, and the marriage collapsed.
Patrick:
My wife and I have been together more than 30 years. We have had separate businesses and joint businesses. That alignment, plus the fact that we still each have our own thing, is a huge blessing.
I joke that I live my life vicariously through my wife, Steffany. She is an Olympic level mental performance coach, going to her fourth Olympics in 2026. Our relationship is very fulfilling and gives me a front row seat to her work.
[35:44] Purpose, Mission and Why You Are Here
Patrick:
If someone says, “Why are you on this planet? What is your higher purpose?” do you have an answer?
Nick:
Yes, though I think purpose evolves and we can have multiple purposes over a lifetime.
I have worked with John Mattone, who coached Steve Jobs in the last year of his life. When Steve Jobs realized he had focused on business at the cost of health and relationships, he wanted to go deep and explore his purpose.
I went through the same program. I use similar tools with my clients.
We explore questions like, “What did you love to do as a child?” That helps you reconnect to what you enjoyed before bosses, parents and society put expectations on you.
There are formulas and questionnaires we use. For myself, what has emerged is that my purpose revolves around holistic success, helping others and passing things on.
There is a saying in the recovery world: you have to pass on the gift to keep it. That is how I try to live. If I find a way in life, the question is, how can I pass this on and be useful?
[38:15] Contribution and Service
Patrick:
I think human nature is wired for contribution. People ask, “Why are we here? What is life about?” and my sense is that for most individuals, at whatever level, it is about being a contribution.
Someone might say, “I am just a stay at home mom” or “just a truck driver,” but if you look at why they do what they do, it is about being a contribution to others – to family, to community, to customers.
Nick:
Yes, it is about contributing.
In my rock bottom I had to be honest about my alcohol problem. When I came into the 12 step world, I saw how important this is.
In those programs, by your second meeting, you are already giving back to the newcomer. You came through the door yesterday and are sober today. Someone comes in today. You are there for that person.
The twelfth step is explicitly about service. Everything we do, we pass on.
For example, when I did my TEDx, I documented the whole process – how to get a TEDx, how to prepare, deliver it, and maximize the impact afterwards. As soon as I had that, I reached out to other speakers who wanted to do TEDx and shared everything I could.
I apply that approach in everything I do now – the successes and the failures.
[40:07] What Makes Nick Different as a Coach
Patrick:
You operate in a crowded space – coaching, speaking, training, working with men. A lot of talking heads in that arena.
What sets you apart? Is it marketing? Relationship building? Something else?
Nick:
Most of the men who come to me have seen professionals before – psychotherapists, counselors, psychologists. They often tell me the same thing: the person they saw did not seem to have lived through what they were going through.
They did not feel real connection or rapport. It was someone who had only ever been a therapist.
I have walked the road. I have planned my own funeral. I have hit rock bottom. I know what it is like to crawl back and rebuild a life.
And I have doubled down on training. I have invested time and money in coaching, and now psychotherapy and counseling. So I combine lived experience with professional training.
That allows me to help men and women who are going through a crisis so they do not have to fall as low as I did. Instead they can capture that moment and find another path.
I think that is the uniqueness I bring.
[41:48] Self Mastery, Ownership and Accountability
Patrick:
I often say, “Your life is a reflection of who you are being.” If you do not like your life, go look in the mirror and start questioning how you are showing up.
I read a book called Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink. The idea is one hundred percent responsibility for whatever happens in your life.
It pushed me to the next level of accountability. When something goes wrong, you look for where you are responsible, not who you can blame.
In relationships, people say marriage is 50–50. My wife and I coach couples and we say it is 100 and 100 – each person brings all of themselves.
How do you see accountability and ownership in leadership?
Nick:
I love that framing. It is about self leadership, self mastery and extreme ownership.
In my work with men, it is about helping them clean up their side of the street. We cannot change what is happening on the other side. We work on what they can own.
Sometimes people play the victim card and we have to gently turn the conversation. We reflect back to show empathy – “I hear you” – and then ask, “What is your part in this?”
Most of my clients come because they want to grow. I am not working with people who are mandated from a courtroom, for example.
Still, some come who are years into blaming a boss for firing them or an ex spouse for infidelity, and they are stuck.
Those people often keep going down until they are ready. In the recovery world they say, “He is not ready yet.” It means he may need to hurt more before he is ready to do the work.
Our job is to invite them into ownership, and help those who are ready.
[49:41] Thinking Big, Intensity and Mentors
Patrick:
Over the years I have interviewed many financially successful leaders. I see three qualities in the really big hitters – those who build hundred million or larger businesses.
First, courage. Second, intensity. Third, they do not care what people think about them.
Looking at your story, you are an intense guy. You come across as a very nice man – I am sure your wife would confirm that – but you are intense. You are up early, on the bike, training to win, then running businesses and building a global presence.
My observation is that the difference between a five or ten million business and a hundred million business often has more to do with the person’s intensity and mindset than the idea.
What do you think?
Nick:
I agree. It takes the same effort to think small as it does to think big. The difference is often who you surround yourself with.
People ahead of you push you to stretch, give you the courage to take bigger steps.
For example, I had limiting beliefs about doing a psychotherapy diploma. I thought I was too old, it would be too challenging, I did not have time. A mentor told me, “You need this authority for where you are going.” I listened.
Now I am almost done with that degree, and I am flying to Singapore to speak at a psychotherapy and counseling conference as a keynote speaker.
Another mentor encouraged me to step into the US market. That led to speaking there next year.
So you need that intensity, but also people around you who channel it in the right direction.
[53:51] When Intensity Becomes a Blind Spot
Patrick:
There is also a risk. That intensity can become a blind spot. People try to tell you to slow down or refocus and you see it as criticism. You double down and say, “No, this is how it has to be.”
Sometimes you have to hit the wall before you realize you need feedback and guidance.
Some people I coach do not have that level of intensity. They will build a great five or ten million business and live a good life. They may say they want a hundred million or a billion, but the reality is they do not have that combination of courage, intensity and “I do not care what others think.”
Nick:
Yes. My life runs on fairly thin margins. I am up early, training, then home, shower, on calls. When others might sit in a coffee shop for an hour after a ride, I stay for a quick espresso and shake, then head home because I have a call in twenty minutes.
That is fine when everything runs to schedule. But life happens. This week I migrated email platforms and thought it would take one day. It took two. When your life is tightly packed, those delays can throw everything off. That is the risk.
The key is to make sure that intensity is not fueled by unhealthy patterns – like my drinking and lack of sleep in the past – and to have people around you who can tell you when you are off track.
[58:27] Hidden Beliefs and Doing Your Own Work
Patrick:
We all have hidden beliefs – “I am not enough,” “I am not worthy,” “I am alone” – often installed in childhood. If we do not identify them, they run the show from the shadows.
In your own self mastery, do you identify and work through your hidden beliefs? And do you do that with clients?
Nick:
Absolutely. And we have to do the work ourselves first.
Every coaching program I have studied starts with doing the process on yourself. You cannot help clients while carrying strong unconscious biases.
In counseling and psychotherapy it is the same. You cannot sit in that chair with unresolved bias and heavy unprocessed material of your own.
So I do the hard work on myself. I have mentors in every space – speaking, coaching, recovery. I mentor junior coaches, and I have some of the best coaches in the world mentoring me.
The difference now is that I am vulnerable with them. In the past I would try to impress my mentors, show them how great things were. Now, before a quarterly check in, I write down my top three challenges in their domain so we can work on them.
I practice that vulnerability muscle with them so I can hold space for my clients to do the same.
[59:55] Business Playbooks vs the Mental Game
Patrick:
I have worked for years with small business owners, entrepreneurs and real estate investors. There is the “how to” side of business – marketing, operations, accounting, sales. Those things are teachable.
But there is also the mental performance side – mindset, emotional strength, spiritual alignment.
You can give someone the “how to” playbook, but if they do not have the mental and emotional capacity, they will not execute. How do you see the balance between the two?
Nick:
I spend most of the time on the mental game.
Give the same playbook to ten people and some will succeed and some will fail, even with identical instructions.
The difference is resilience – the ability to see setbacks as learning rather than failure, and the willingness to reach out for help when they do not know the answer.
That is what takes you outside the manual. That is how you stand out and become unique. Those things cannot be fully captured in a manual.
In a world of AI, those who rely only on AI will struggle. The ones who combine AI with their own creativity and human support networks will thrive.
I use AI a lot, but always combined with vulnerability – asking questions, seeking advice from humans, integrating both.
[1:03:03] Final Message to Leaders
Patrick:
As we wind down, if there is a message you would want leaders to hear, what would it be?
Nick:
If you have a feeling that you could do more, should have more, or could be more successful – or if you have settled and think “this is just the way it is” – I would challenge you to look honestly at yourself.
Do that self assessment across all areas of your life. See whether there are blind spots or something holding you back.
Then have the courage to reach out. It does not matter what the blind spot is.
I have been open today about alcohol being one of mine. When I took ownership and asked for help – from support groups, psychologists, therapists – and removed alcohol from my life, I was able to start living the life I have today. It really is beyond my wildest dreams.
For me it was alcohol. For you it might be social media, gambling, gaming, endless TV, Netflix – anything that numbs you and keeps you from doing what you know you could do.
Take ownership and remove that.
For example, the last time I watched TV news was March 2020. During the pandemic everything on TV was negative, and I felt that was not for me. I stopped watching news.
I replaced that time with bike rides and volunteering for charity. I still know roughly what is going on in the world through memes and jokes and conversations, but I am not drowning in negativity.
That, along with sobriety, has transformed my life.
[1:05:06] News, Doom and Stoic Perspective
Patrick:
I love that. It reminds me of Marcus Aurelius – do not worry about what you cannot control.
You cannot control what is happening in Russia and Ukraine. You can only listen to doom and gloom.
In my work I do a lot of economic research, so I get drawn into it. I have to pay attention. But I also have to step away sometimes, because it is heavy.
When you are constantly being fed what is wrong with the world – Trump, our prime minister, what is happening in Australia, the UK, digital ID, all of it – it is hard not to get pulled down those rabbit holes.
So your guidance to unplug from that, or at least reduce it, is really powerful.
You also said something earlier I want to underline. If you have an inner narrative that you are capable of more, that you are being pulled towards something, it is important to say it out loud to someone you trust. Someone older, wiser or more experienced.
You may need help to pull that thread. I have a little plaque on my desk that says “Own your need.” People think a lot of things very loudly in their heads, but they do not ask for help or clarity. Then they blame others.
So if you have that persistent inner voice, own your need and speak it.
[1:08:49] Rapid Fire Questions
Patrick:
Let us finish with a bit of fun. These are “rapid fire” questions, though the answers are not always rapid.
Ready?.
Nick:
Let us try.
Patrick:
Apple or Android?
Nick:
Android.
Patrick:
Favorite music – band or song?
Nick:
AC/DC, “Thunderstruck.”
Patrick:
Favorite movie?
Nick:
The Godfather.
Patrick:
A book that was instrumental in your life?
Nick:
The 5AM Club. I recommend it as an audio book. It is probably the best produced audio book I have listened to.
Patrick:
I read it and I am a 5 am guy by nature. I loved the message, but did not love how it was written. Maybe it was meant to be an audio experience.
Another book you mentioned earlier was As Bill Sees It from the AA series. That one had an impact on a friend of mine and he gave it to me.
Do you have a favorite quote you live by?
Nick:
“You have to give it back to keep it.”
That comes from the recovery world. If you come in, get sober and then just move on with your life without giving back, you are likely to relapse. Passing it on keeps you connected and grounded.
Patrick:
Favorite swear word?
Nick:
In Swedish we say “fan.” It is like “God damn it.”
Patrick:
If there is a God, what do you want to hear at the gates?
Nick:
“Welcome.” Maybe “Welcome, good job.”
[1:14:38] Gratitude and Closing
Patrick:
What are you grateful for?
Nick:
Today in particular I am grateful to be in my beautiful back office here in Phuket, Thailand. When I look out the window I see green mountains and rainforest just a few hundred meters away. It is a dream beyond my wildest dreams, and I got here thanks to the deep work I did with coaches and mentors.
Patrick:
I love that. Gratitude is huge for me as well.
I am always grateful for the guests I have the opportunity to meet and the conversations I get to have. I am deeply grateful for my wife, my family, and my two Bernese Mountain dogs who make me laugh every day and drive me crazy at the same time.
Nick, I want to say thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today. It has been very enlightening. I appreciate your time and the insights you have shared.
Nick:
Thank you so much, Patrick. It has been great being on your show.
[1:18:00] Outro
Patrick:
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for listening.
If you found value in the podcast, please take the time to rate and review and share with others, share with your friends. It is my goal to always improve and provide the highest value for you, the listener.
If you have any comments, suggestions or questions you would like answered, please email me at CEO@reincanada.com, that is CEO at R E I N Canada dot com.
I look forward to hearing from you and, until next time, Patrick out.
