[00:04] Opening and Guest Introduction
Patrick (Host):
Hi there, and welcome to The Everyday Millionaire podcast. My name is Patrick Francey, and I am your host. Thank you for listening. On this show I have conversations with seemingly ordinary individuals who have achieved extraordinary results in life and business.
My intention is to inspire and help you learn and grow by having my guests share how they face and overcome challenges and how they celebrate their wins.
Let us get on with the show and have a conversation with today’s guest.
My guest today, Debra Atkinson, is the founder of Flipping 50, the first and only fitness membership created exclusively for women in and around menopause. Men, you need to listen too. If you love a woman over 40 and you do not understand menopause, you are flying blind. Today we are going to fix that.
Debra is here to show why this is not the beginning of the end but the start of the strongest decade for you and your partner. She explains that for 40 years most exercise research ignored women’s hormones, and she is on a mission to change the way women age.
Only about 20 percent of adults lift weights twice a week, yet it is one of the biggest reasons women hit a wall in midlife, and it is 100 percent fixable. If you take nothing else away from this conversation, remember it is never too late. From reversing bone loss in your 60s to clearing brain fog in your 70s, age is not your ceiling.
Debra has been in the fitness and exercise science world for more than 40 years. She is an exercise physiologist, former university lecturer, strength and conditioning coach, TEDx speaker, and now trains women, trainers and even physicians on how to prescribe exercise for midlife and menopausal women.
Twelve years ago, when almost nobody was talking about menopause, Debra saw the gap. Women were being told, “That is just aging, what do you expect,” while research was still built mostly on male bodies. She set out to change that.
Today we get into what is really happening with women’s hormones, bone density, muscle, brain fog, mood, libido and weight as they move through peri and post menopause, and what actually works: smart strength training, supplements and lifestyle shifts that are evidence based, not fads.
If you are a man listening and you love a woman over 40, if you have a partner, sister, daughter or client, you need to understand this too. This conversation is about reframing midlife from “it is the beginning of the end” to “what do I want to do now, and why?” As Debra says, it is never too late to change the way we age. Listen in and enjoy.
[03:22] Why Men Should Care About Menopause
Patrick:
Debra Atkinson, welcome to The Everyday Millionaire podcast. Thank you for joining me.
Debra:
Thank you so much for having me. I am excited to talk.
Patrick:
Let us clear something up right away. Your bio is impressive and very women centric. Does that mean men listening today are not going to get any value from this conversation?
Debra:
I think they will get a lot of value if they love women.
Patrick:
I agree. But I want to set it up and manage expectations. A man might think, “Why am I listening to this, it is all about women.” My belief is there are lessons for men in all of these conversations, so I am counting on you to keep us heading in the right direction.
I like to open with a fundamental. Bios are impressive and often not up to date. When someone asks you today, “Debra, what do you do,” how are you answering that question?
[04:22] What Debra Does and Why Menopause Is a Big Deal
Debra:
I am the founder of the first and only exclusively made for menopause fitness membership in the world. Twelve years ago, nobody was talking about menopause and certainly not menopause fitness. Today everybody is talking about it and I could not be more excited.
I believe we will be the generation that changes the way we all age. And a huge part of that is because we can change the way women age if we change the way they journey through menopause.
Patrick:
What has shifted? Is it simply that we are all getting older, or is it technology and better information? What is driving this bigger conversation?
Debra:
I think it is all of the above. We are aging as a population, and specifically we can thank Baby Boomers. I call myself a barely Boomer, one of those 1964 babies.
My older siblings went through menopause before me, and they decided they were not going to just accept the answers they were getting. They pushed back, the same way that generation changed so many other things. They did not like being told “Welcome to menopause, what do you expect.”
That pressure exposed a deeper problem. There was very little research featuring women. In exercise science and sports medicine the ratio of male to female subjects was way off. Researchers did not like working with women because our hormones change every week in a typical month. Men were “easy.”
The irony is that is exactly why we need more research on women. If we do not understand our physiology we cannot help women get better results or avoid injury, especially when hormones shift at menopause. We see bone changes, muscle changes, connective tissue changes. Those changes will influence how we age, for better or worse, depending on what we do.
We are only now starting to understand the choices because we had not been properly informed.
[08:00] What Menopause Actually Is
Patrick:
Let us not assume everyone is on the same page. Can we define menopause? I think it means different things to different people. If you are a 40 year old woman or man, it might be important to know what it really is.
Debra:
Great point. Literally, menopause is a mark in time. You hit menopause when it has been 12 consecutive months since your last period. After that, you are considered post menopausal for the rest of your life.
But the whole menopause experience can stretch 11, 15, even 20 years depending on who you ask. Every woman’s journey is as unique as her thumbprint. There are common patterns and symptoms we can watch for, but every woman experiences it differently.
Somewhere in a woman’s late 30s or early 40s, we can be fairly sure she is entering perimenopause. Hormones like estrogen, progesterone, testosterone and growth hormone are trending down. Cortisol tends to trend up. That is not a great recipe for blood sugar control or stress tolerance. It can be a roller coaster, up and down, but overall the trend is down.
At menopause itself things more or less flatline. You still have some testosterone, especially if you lift weights and do high intensity exercise, but estrogen and progesterone are largely gone unless you receive support through hormone therapy.
We are even shifting vocabulary. Instead of “hormone replacement therapy,” there is a push to call it simply “hormone therapy.” We are not fully replacing what nature once provided. We are supplementing and trying to mimic it as safely and closely as possible.
Perimenopause can last up to 11 years. A woman can then hit menopause and still experience symptoms in post menopause. Some women never have hot flashes or night sweats. Others only get them after menopause. The ride can be bumpy and it is different for everyone.
[10:00] Physical and Mental Aspects
Patrick:
When people hear “menopause,” most of the connotations are negative because of that bumpy ride. In my life, with sisters and with my wife of over 30 years, I remember her going through perimenopause.
She was very proactive and we are holistic in how we approach health. She went to a practitioner with a nursing background who worked with her using a more holistic approach. She went through it quite effortlessly. She would note symptoms, but it was not a huge, dramatic thing for us.
Is there a mental aspect to how women experience menopause? It seems like how you go into those years matters. Am I off base?
Debra:
I do not think you are off at all. There is research on the way we think about aging. If we have a positive attitude about aging and what is next, if we are looking forward to what is around the corner and using the wisdom we have earned, it changes everything.
For me there was something about turning the corner at 60. I reached a point where I truly did not care what anybody else thought. I have fewer years ahead of me than behind, so I am not going to spend them worrying. I am going to go do the thing.
The research suggests you can add about seven years to your life by having a positive attitude about aging. I suspect menopause is similar. For some women it feels like an ending. It is the end of reproduction and maybe the end of how they saw their role in the world.
That experience is probably tied to what else is happening in her life. If she has purpose beyond home and family, that may shape how she experiences this transition.
There is also a huge sense of loss of control. Many women have done everything “right” their whole lives. They have exercised, eaten well, stayed lean. Then suddenly what used to work no longer works. They try to pivot but do not know how. There is no manual.
If her identity has been tied to being very fit, active and looking a certain way, that is deeply unsettling. Body composition changes. Energy drops. For the first time she may be dealing with fatigue she cannot solve. That is a big part of the emotional story.
[15:00] Symptoms, Intimacy and Mental Health
Patrick:
What exactly are women losing control of in that stage?
Debra:
If we look down the list of symptoms, there are more than 30 identified signs of menopause. Some are surprising, like tingling or “electrical” sensations in the mouth. Others are familiar:
- Hot flashes and night sweats
- Overall weight gain
- Belly fat where weight has redistributed even if the scale has not changed
- Loss of muscle strength, then tone, then definition
- Insomnia
- Low libido, and sometimes pain with intimacy
Those changes affect how a woman sees herself and her future, whether she is single or in a long term relationship. Intimacy is important in relationships, so when sex becomes painful or libido disappears, it raises big questions.
Add in brain fog, depression and anxiety. Women already have a higher lifetime risk of depression and anxiety compared to men. We also tend to outlive you, so we spend more years navigating life alone after losing partners.
A lot of that is tied to brain, muscle and bone changes that happen as hormones drop. Women hit a cliff. Men tend to have a smoother landing. You decline later, by almost a decade, and not as sharply.
[19:15] Men’s Hormones, HRT and Awareness
Patrick:
As a Boomer born in 1958, training, eating well and holistic health have been part of my life for at least 35 to 40 years. I still maintain a lot of muscle and train regularly, with a trainer coming in a couple of times a week for accountability.
I get asked a lot, especially by men but also by women, if I am on testosterone or some kind of hormone replacement. It seems almost assumed that to maintain muscle mass as an older man, you must be supplementing.
Given advances in medical technology, is hormone therapy now more mainstream and better understood for women? Do women know their options today in a way they did not 10 years ago?
Debra:
Great question, and there is a lot to unpack. I think from today forward it will keep getting better as people become more informed about their choices and the safety of those choices.
The problem is the hangover from older research, like the infamous Nurses’ Health Study, and the fear based messaging that followed. Even when those conclusions have been updated or refuted, fear sticks around like a junior high rumor.
This is especially painful for breast cancer survivors or women at high risk. They are often unclear whether hormone therapy is safe or absolutely off limits. The answer depends a lot on the physician, how up to date they are and what their training emphasized.
Doctors are human. They learned something early in their careers and may have built their practice around those beliefs. We all know how hard it is to let go of deeply ingrained ideas, even when newer evidence suggests we should.
I am seeing more women now asking, “Is it too late for me to start hormone therapy?” Ten or fifteen years ago it was never presented as an option.
I host a podcast and asked seven menopause experts that exact question. Every one of them said, “No, it is not too late.” The caveat is you start much more slowly if it has been years since your last period, and the dosages are lower than for a woman who just reached menopause this year. But there are still options.
There is also a big difference between working with a conventional Western trained physician and a functional medicine doctor who is focused on root causes and long term health rather than only reacting when something is already broken.
[26:30] Preparing For Menopause Early
Patrick:
Is there anything women can do proactively before they reach menopause so they go through it as well as possible?
My benchmark is my wife. As soon as she realized she was in perimenopause she addressed it naturopathically and holistically. From my perspective, she went through it quite smoothly.
We also hear the stereotype of men joking about menopause in fearful ways. So is there pre preparation women can do?
Debra:
Absolutely. My company is called Flipping 50, and while some people take that literally and think “I’m not 50 yet so this is not for me,” the idea is about flipping the second half of life.
We can help women in menopause much more if we start talking to them in their 20s and 30s. Honestly, I ask myself often, “Would 30 year old me have listened to this?” I hope so.
Right now I have a daughter in law who just had a baby. I keep thinking, “I wish we had given her a bone density test at 30,” because that is when we see a woman’s personal peak bone mass. Instead, most people get their first scan at 60 or 65 when insurance covers it and a lot of bone has already been lost.
We also compare older women to a generic “young healthy woman” instead of to their personal peak, so we do not really know their trajectory.
We want girls and young women, and honestly boys too, to build strong bones and muscles early. That means less screen time, more jump ropes and physical play. They are banking bone and muscle until around age 30. After that, we can still build but it is harder and slower.
If we can get a 30 year old woman to lift weights regularly, eat enough high quality protein, get a variety of colorful micronutrient rich foods, and supplement with vitamin D and magnesium when needed, she will arrive at menopause with more muscle and bone.
And muscle is a huge part of the secret. More muscle means better blood sugar control and less insulin resistance. For most women, insulin resistance is what shows up as stubborn extra pounds and belly fat. Strength training before and during menopause changes all of that.
[31:19] Bone Density and Muscle Memory
Patrick:
I have always relied on muscle memory. Even if I fall out of training for a while, the speed at which my strength comes back is incredible compared to starting from scratch.
Is bone density the same way? Does bone have memory?
Debra:
Not in the same way, at least not according to the research I have seen. And I should mention, as we are talking, that today happens to be World Osteoporosis Day, which shows how serious a problem this is globally. World Osteoporosis Day+1
Osteoporosis really came on the radar in the mid 1990s. In the fitness industry we used to call older clients “special populations.” Today everybody is special.
Back then our teaching around osteoporosis was split: one set of rules to prevent it if you were still healthy, and a very different set if you were diagnosed. Once diagnosed, the message was essentially “bubble wrap them.” No jumping, be very careful stepping off curbs, avoid impact.
In the early 2010s researchers finally challenged that. They realized nobody was fracturing bones from lifting weights, but people were fracturing when they fell because they were frail.
It took courage to do those studies, but once they did, they found that high impact and heavy lifting can be safe and effective even for post menopausal women with osteoporosis, when properly programmed and monitored.
That does not mean light or moderate training does not work, it does. But there is a continuum. Most people should start light, progress to moderate over about a year, then eventually increase load to keep improving.
At some point, maybe around 48 weeks in, you may plateau with moderate loads. A fraction of people will choose to go heavier. Others will have arthritis, fear of injury or other barriers, so we look at additional levers like diet, gut health, sleep and stress. Those factors also influence bone health.
[36:24] Supplements That Matter: Vitamin D, Magnesium, Omega 3s and Creatine
Patrick:
Let us talk supplements. I nerd out on this for myself and because of my influence on others. There is so much information out there, good and bad, and you have to sort out who is credible.
You mentioned vitamin D. In my opinion 100 percent of people should be supplementing vitamin D. We take something like 10,000 IU daily. People also forget that vitamin D is actually a hormone.
You mentioned magnesium. There are different forms. There is vitamin C. And I have been paying attention to creatine for brain performance as well as strength.
What is your view on supplements in general and creatine specifically?
Debra:
This is such an important conversation. Many women struggle with the idea of supplements. They want to “do it naturally,” as if supplementing is somehow cheating.
But given the quality of our soil and the toxins in our environment, it is very hard to get everything we need from food alone. One husband and wife team who write on nutrition looked at the top healthy diets – Mediterranean, DASH, vegetarian and so on – and found that to just hit basic RDAs from food you would need to eat roughly 21 to 27 thousand calories a day, depending on the diet. Obviously that is not a recommendation, it just makes the point.
For women in menopause, hormones and gut health are closely linked. Many hormones are produced in the gut. When hormones change, many women suddenly struggle with gas, bloating, constipation or diarrhea, even if they never did before.
No exercise prescription will work if you are not absorbing nutrients. So smart supplementation is a key part of the picture.
For most midlife women my “foundation” list includes:
- Vitamin D3 with K2 for bones, muscles and overall hormone support
- Magnesium to help vitamin D and calcium do their jobs, and to support muscle, sleep and relaxation
- Omega 3s and a better 3 to 6 ratio to reduce inflammation and support muscle, bone and brain
- And yes, creatine
Creatine is not just for bodybuilders and not only on training days. For men and women, there is good evidence supporting creatine for muscle, bone density and brain health. It can help with cognitive function when sleep deprived or jet lagged, and there are slightly different dosing strategies depending on whether you are focused on performance or cognition, but daily use is the common denominator.
Omega 6s are not evil. We need some. The problem is our ratio. Most people are getting far too many omega 6s compared to omega 3s, often something like 1 to 20, when we want more like 1 to 3 or 4. Nuts and seeds, nut butters and seed oils are big sources of omega 6s and many of us snack on them constantly.
So no, supplementing is not cheating. It is smart nutrition for the world we live in.
[45:00] Aging, Pain and Inflammation
Patrick:
As I have gotten older, I notice more pain when I train. I do not lift particularly heavy, but my knees, elbows, shoulders, little things start to complain. Sometimes I wonder, “Is this just aging?” and now you have me thinking about omega 6s.
My basic mantra is “do not let the old man in,” but there is a reality to how the body feels as we age.
Debra:
I hear that a lot. It is important to separate what is inevitable from what is optional. Some wear and tear happens with decades of living, but systemic inflammation is something we can influence significantly through nutrition, sleep, stress and movement.
Improving that omega 3 to 6 ratio, dialing down processed foods, and strength training intelligently can dramatically reduce pain and stiffness. It is not magic, but it is very real.
[50:00] Motivation, Dopamine and Doing Hard Things
Patrick:
Let us talk about motivation and the mental game. I always tell people I work out because I like to eat and because I am vain. I do not lead with the vanity, but it is a factor and I am honest about it.
It is still hard. Some days my trainer walks in and I say, “You are going to earn your money today because I do not want to do this.” Other days I am excited and want to push.
Any insights on helping people, especially women in menopause, get over the mental hump to move their bodies consistently?
Debra:
For menopausal women we have a real physiological disadvantage. When estrogen, progesterone, testosterone and growth hormone drop, we also lose dopamine receptors.
Dopamine is one of the key feel good neurotransmitters. Many of us think about endorphins, but dopamine, serotonin and oxytocin all play big roles in how we feel about exercise and connection.
If a woman used to feel a lovely high after workouts and now her sessions feel flat, she may think she is doing something wrong. She is not. Her brain just does not respond in the same way.
If a woman used to feel a lovely high after workouts and now her sessions feel flat, she may think she is doing something wrong. She is not. Her brain just does not respond in the same way.
Instead, stack the deck. Use music that lights you up. Train outdoors in sunshine. Walk or lift with a friend and vent as you go. There is evidence that sunshine, walking and talking together can boost serotonin as effectively as some medications for certain people. I am not saying to stop medication, but those behaviors can support your brain chemistry.
Use objective measures like a smart scale to track muscle mass, or simply notice softer indicators: better mood, clearer thinking, better sleep, improved libido, fewer cravings. Those are signs your exercise dose is in the sweet spot.
And on the days you do not want to do it, remember what your trainer told you. Write down how good you feel after the hard days. That becomes evidence you can use against your future excuses.
[55:00] The 80 Percent and Intimidating Fitness Culture
Patrick:
I also see a lot of unrealistic benchmarks on social media. Young trainers flashing abs and high intensity workouts can shut people down rather than inspire them.
Debra:
I agree. I was recently presenting to about 600 physicians and I told them we have to be careful with our messaging.
Around 80 percent of the population self reports that they are not lifting weights twice a week at even the minimum level for metabolic health. That likely understates the real number.
The 20 percent who are lifting are the ones consuming most of the content. So when we post advanced workouts or flashy moves, we are unintentionally intimidating the people who most need our help.
I see 53 year old orthopedic surgeons jumping on 24 inch boxes and saying, “This is 53.” It is impressive, but not everyone should be doing that. We mean, “This is what 53 can look like,” but many people hear, “This is what 53 must look like,” and they shut down.
Trainers often feel pressure to deliver fast results and make people very sore in the first week. That backfires. For the 80 percent, we should bias toward conservative, sustainable programs so they feel successful and want to come back.
Trainers often feel pressure to deliver fast results and make people very sore in the first week. That backfires. For the 80 percent, we should bias toward conservative, sustainable programs so they feel successful and want to come back.
[1:03:10] Influencer vs Expert
Patrick:
We also have the rise of influencers who may not have much experience coaching real bodies in real rooms.
Debra:
Exactly. Malcolm Gladwell popularized the idea of 10 thousand hours to mastery. During the pandemic many people got certified online and went straight to being influencers.
They know how to coach their own body in front of a camera, but they have not seen hundreds of different bodies and lever lengths, or learned how to cue someone who is not sure what to ask.
People have lost the ability to distinguish between an expert and an influencer. That is a real concern, especially for midlife women who can be more vulnerable to injury.
[1:05:00] Women, Caregiving and Guilt About Self Care
Patrick:
I want to bring in something I have learned from my wife’s coaching work. Many women are caregivers at the center of their family universe. They give to kids, partners, parents, in laws, community.
When someone suggests they do something for themselves, they often go straight to guilt. They think of the kids needing shoes or some other expense. Fitness, rest, time with girlfriends, they all feel indulgent.
I tell men to buy the spa gift card, book the appointment and say, “I have the kids, you are going.” Because the most selfless thing a woman can do is look after herself so she can continue caring for everyone else.
What is your experience with that?
Debra:
That is spot on. In our membership when women leave and we invite them back, the reason they left is almost never budget or discontent. It is life. Someone needed caregiving, maybe an aging parent or grandchildren, and their own self care got pushed aside.
At our women’s retreats I recently asked if anyone would like a retreat that included partners with parallel programming. Almost immediately the answer was no. This is the only thing they do just for themselves and they want to keep it that way.
So yes, the psychology and the guilt are very real.
[1:10:00] Extremely Low Body Fat, GLP 1s and Disordered Patterns
Patrick:
Stephanie has also taught me about female athletes whose body fat gets so low their periods stop. I wonder what that means later at menopause.
Debra:
It is a great question and we do not have a lot of data because it is relatively rare. One angle that is emerging now is with GLP 1 medications.
Some people are taking them very far and getting extremely lean. You see people with almost no padding, very little fat between their legs. If another illness or crisis comes along, they have no reserves. That is a step away from frailty.
We are seeing a resurgence of eating disorders and disordered patterns in midlife that mirror what we see when young women’s bodies change or when they leave home for college. Control and body image are deeply tied to this.
My bigger concern is not just the present but what happens if they get sick. Do they have any buffer? Being ultra lean is fine for short periods in a sport context, but it might not be the right template for lifelong health.
[1:13:41] Letting Go of the Old Benchmark
Patrick:
There are so many stories people tell themselves about what they “should” look like and what they are supposed to do.
Debra:
Almost everyone says, “I just want to get back to where I used to be.”
The hard truth is we are not going back. That does not mean it has to be worse. We need to also ask, “What if it could be that or better from here?” We forget to ask that other side of the question.
[1:14:09] How Men Can Support Women Through Menopause
Patrick:
For men, husbands and significant others, what are two or three things they can do to best support a woman going through menopause? Is it just patience?
Debra:
I would say start with curiosity. Respectfully say, “I am hearing so much about this, but we never talk about it. What is this like for you?”
That is a safe, open question. It is not fixing or diagnosing. It gives her space to share her experience instead of feeling judged.
Patrick:
My go to advice to men when they say, “My wife is going through menopause,” is “Remember to breathe.” That is what I got when I asked for advice.
[1:15:16] Debra’s Turning Point and the Birth of Flipping 50
Patrick:
Let us talk about your journey. You have done TEDx talks, written books, and built a thriving business. How did you end up here?
Debra:
When I was 49 I made a pivotal decision. I could see the fitness industry was not everything I wished it was, especially for midlife women.
In the movie National Treasure, Nicolas Cage’s character says something like, “If you see that something is wrong and you know a better way, you have the responsibility to fix it or be that.”
I realized I could either keep complaining or do something. So I quit everything. I left the university, my private sector work, my paychecks and my retirement plan. I am sure my stepfather was rolling in his grave.
I wanted to help trainers and fitness pros I had been teaching. We were losing the best ones – the ones with the heart and the 4.0 GPA – because they could not market and sell. No one teaches them that in a four year degree or in certifications.
I wanted to help trainers and fitness pros I had been teaching. We were losing the best ones – the ones with the heart and the 4.0 GPA – because they could not market and sell. No one teaches them that in a four year degree or in certifications.
So I picked a niche. I asked, who have I been working with for 30 years and who do I love serving? The answer was Boomer women. That is how Flipping 50 was born.
On my 50th birthday I was sleeping in my niece’s basement apartment with her dog upstairs and three kids in the house. It was not the glamorous picture you might imagine. But I thought, “If I can do this, you can do this. There is nothing special about me.”
Now we have come full circle. We train trainers and health coaches in the framework I used to grow from zero. We are having a bigger impact on women in midlife and menopause and beginning to teach physicians how to prescribe exercise.
[1:20:00] Early Life, Athletics and Entrepreneurship
Patrick:
Did you grow up athletic or entrepreneurial?
Debra:
Entrepreneurial, not really. My stepfather worked for one company for 40 years and got the watch at retirement.
I did have a Kool Aid stand and I sold toys on a cardboard table. I distinctly remember losing a quarter in the grass and going to my mom for another one. She said, “That is not how it works.” That was my first lesson in business.
Athletically, I was not a natural. I chose sports where you could mostly stand still like golf and playing second base in softball. You did not have to run laps for either.
I did not start self directed exercise until the summer between high school and college. After a lot of graduation parties and cinnamon rolls I knew I needed to get moving before lifeguard season, so I started walking with my mom. By the time I got to college I was jogging and loving it.
Originally I was a graphic design major, but I noticed that graphic design majors smoked, drank and stayed up all night. That was not my lifestyle. So I put one foot into physical education. After a semester with some great instructors I thought, “I want to do this.”
I wanted to teach people how to feel the way I felt, to be better students, parents, bosses and doctors because they had this foundation. I also believed I could teach it better than what I had seen.
My parents thought I was crazy. “You are going to major in what?” At that time aerobics and fitness were not a real career path. But I knew it was the work I wanted to do.
[1:22:30] Why Fitness Makes Life Better and Discipline vs Habits
Patrick:
I often say I do not work out to live longer, even though that is likely a side benefit. I train so the years I am alive are awesome. Physically, you have to put in the time to have that quality of life.
My trainer and I laugh about the mental side a lot. Some days I tell him, “You will make your money today, I do not want to work out.” Other days I feel incredible and want to go harder. He tells me to write down the good days so I can remind myself on the bad ones.
Debra:
I love that. I do not want to work out every day either. I do it because I know I will feel better afterwards than if I skip it. It is discipline and commitment, not constant motivation.
One of my clients, a very disciplined woman in every area of life except exercise, finally said, “I realized I had to stop lying to myself.” When she said she was going to work out and then did not, she was breaking promises to herself. That framing carried a lot of power for her.
[1:25:00] High Performance, Low Tolerance and Self Honesty
Patrick:
A coach friend of mine coined the phrase “high performance is a result of low tolerances.” We used it in business to talk about culture and standards, but it applies personally too.
What do we tolerate from ourselves? Often we tolerate our own excuses and lies. We say we will move, eat differently, sleep more, then we let ourselves off the hook.
There is a lot of power in simply saying, “Stop lying to yourself.”
Debra:
Absolutely. Keeping promises to yourself is foundational. Once you realize you are the one breaking them, it can be a real turning point.
[1:27:22] Final Message: It Is Never Too Late
Patrick:
We have covered a lot of ground. Is there a message we have not touched that you want listeners to hear?
Debra:
Yes. It is never too late.
There are studies on 90 year olds who start lifting weights and still gain strength and cognitive function. You may wish you started earlier, but you actually have a really exciting future if you are just starting now. There is nothing quite like being a beginner. Start today.
[1:30:22] Rapid Fire Questions
Patrick:
Let us wind down with a few rapid fire questions. Ready?
Apple or Android?
Debra:
Apple.
Patrick:
Have you always been Apple?
Debra:
Yes, for a long time. Once you go Apple, you rarely go back.
Patrick:
Favorite genre of music or band?
Debra:
Motown.
Patrick:
Great choice. Favorite movie?
Debra:
That is hard, but I will say The Wizard of Oz.
Patrick:
Favorite swear word?
Debra:
Can I say it?
Patrick:
Of course.
Debra:
Fuck.
We had a tragic death in our family in 2016 and I never said “fuck” more than that year, but I also never said “I love you” more. There is something about that contrast.
Patrick:
I get that. Some guests tell me they do not swear, and I think, “How is that even possible?”
Favorite book, or one that really changed things for you?
Debra:
I love books, but I will pick something simple. The first book I read completely by myself: a Dr. Seuss book called Ten Apples Up On Top.
Patrick:
If God exists, what do you want to hear when you get to the gates?
Debra:
“Well done.”
Patrick:
What are you grateful for?
Debra:
Family. The good times, the bad times, the losses and grief. What rings true is the amount of love in the room.
Patrick:
I am always grateful for my family and for the chance to meet guests like you. Thank you for your time today.
[1:33:14] Closing
Patrick:
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for listening. If you found value in the podcast, please rate, review and share it with your friends.
If you have comments, suggestions or questions you would like answered, email me at CEO@reincanada.com. That is CEO at R E I N Canada dot com. I look forward to hearing from you.
Until next time, Patrick out.
