Episode Full Transcript

Length: 01:19:48
Host: Patrick Francey
Guest: David Gerber

• This polished transcript has been reformatted in a show notes style for readability and publishing purposes. Filler language, repetition, and transcription artifacts have been removed while preserving tone and meaning.

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  [00:00] Introduction and Framing the Conversation

  Patrick Francey: Hi there, and welcome to the Everyday Millionaire Podcast. My name is Patrick Francie, and I am your host. And I want to begin by saying, thank you for listening on this show. I am having conversations with seemingly ordinary individuals who have achieved some amazing and extraordinary results in both their life and business, my intention is to inspire and help you learn and grow by having my guests share their journey of how they face and overcome their challenges, but also how they celebrate their many wins. And now let’s get on with this show and have a conversation with today’s guest. So, what if the danger that you’ve been avoiding is actually the doorway to the life you’ve been asking for, whatever that danger might be for you. We know it’s not reckless danger or manufactured drama, but the inner danger that we all recognize, the conversations you’re avoiding, the decisions you keep delaying, the identity you’ve outgrown, but keep because change feels far too risky. , at some point every high performer faces a moment where the old ways of doing things and being stops working. The habits that got you here start to grow old. The success that once energized you begins to feel an energy drain, and the life you built starts feeling there must be more here, but not from who you’ve been. That is where today’s conversation begins. My guest is David Gerber, a mental performance coach, TEDx speaker, partner at Novus Global, and one of the most unique people I’ve had the opportunity to speak with. Now, David works with professional athletes, he works with CEOs and high-performing leaders who are ready to move beyond autopilot and into a deeper level of clarity, of courage, and what he calls radical aliveness, but what makes David’s work so fascinating is not just that he coaches elite performers, it’s that he is also a certified get this lion tracker. He spent weeks on foot in the African bush tracking lions in real danger, learning presence, instinct, awareness – all of it comes together to stay grounded when every part of his body wants to run, and that’s not just a wilderness story, it’s a life story, because most of us are tracking something as well, we’re tracking meaning or purpose, we’re tracking the next version of ourselves, and we’re tracking the life we sense is possible, even when we don’t yet have the courage or the clarity to step into it. David’s upcoming book, The Lion Is You, explores exactly that, how to follow the clues of your next chapter and become the leader your life is asking you to become. This conversation is about fear, identity, performance, courage, and the uncomfortable truth that sometimes the things we’re most afraid to face is not outside of us, it is in fact within us. Without any further delays, David Gerber. Let’s get this show started. Welcome, David Gerber. Welcome to the Everyday Millionaire Podcast. Thank you so much for joining me.

  Patrick Francey: So, David, I open always with the same fundamental question, , and context. So, the bios are bios, but they’re never quite up to date or up to speed, and generally my guests are just people who are getting stuff done, so I open with the question, is if somebody walks up to you today and says, “So, David, what do you do?

  David Gerber: That’s a great question. I oftentimes will I to lead with this idea that I get love to get people out into the wild on foot with lions in Africa, because normally that , do I’m an executive coach, I work with professional athletes, I work with CEOs, executive teams, whatever it is, and I find obviously there’s a lot of executive coaches out there, a lot of general coaches, and so I find people are , oh, cool, another coach, and so when I start talking about the lions, people are seem to be way more intrigued, and I can weave all kinds of stuff that I do in coaching with what I do with lions out in Africa, and so I to lead with that. I put on my LinkedIn bio that I’m an explorer of, , the wilderness and human potential, and so I to weave all those things together.

  Patrick Francey: that’s a long ways from Africa. So, how does.. there’s no lions there, so at least in Denver. So, how did the whole lion thing come to be?

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  [05:00] Discovering Lion Tracking in Africa

  David Gerber: Yeah, yeah, so the lion thing came to be, so if I, if I go back, it’s interesting. I’d been on some vehicle safaris, and I knew that I loved them, and but there was something I always felt it’s I want to be, I want to feel closer to the the energy of the animals, if you will. I don’t know, and I couldn’t really explain it, it wasn’t a rational thing, but you see him from the vehicle, you actually most times when you’re in a vehicle, you can actually get much closer to the animals than you can on foot, and so you get, you actually get better photographs, better viewing, oftentimes from the vehicle, but there was always this sense I wanted to be closer to them, and so I would ask around when we, I’d be out on a vehicle safari, I’d ask around, I’d ask guides, and , hey, can you go on foot, but I also had this perception that if you go on foot with lions, or , the other animals, there’s leopards, cheetah, out there, there’s rhino, buffalo, elephants, , I had this perception, if you go out on foot, you just, you’re just gonna die, you’re gonna get eaten, or something’s gonna happen to you, and , makes sense, yeah, and so, what, as I would ask, , the guides would be interesting. They’re , “Well, yeah, you can go sometimes. You can go on what’s called the bush walk, which you do for, , it’s a 90 minute thing one morning when you’re on safari. And so I was , “Okay, , cool, but that usually you’re just looking for birds or you’re looking at vegetation or whatever. It’s not really anything you’re.. you’re not really looking for lions. It’s certainly not, , these predators. So I was , okay, that doesn’t really sound that much fun to me. And then eventually, as I asked enough questions, I found out there is this very niche thing you can do, which is to, you can actually go tracking lions, because at any game reserve that they have in Africa, they have to have trackers that go and find the animals, because when you, when you’re in a vehicle safari, even if you find the animals, usually it’s because trackers got up an hour or two before everybody, they went out, found the animals, and then they radioed the camp and say, okay, here’s where the lion activity is, come to this area, you don’t just necessarily stumble upon them, there’s a lot of things happening

  David Gerber: yeah, yeah, so , because he’s, , it’s it’s not a zoo, it’s not a safari park, it’s, it is the wild, and the blocks of land that will track on in South Africa oftentimes are eight by eight, nine by nine miles, so it’s a very large plot of land, and there’s there’s no guarantee there’s actually lions there when we go out, and so there’s usually four or five of those blocks we can, , so if you put it all together, it’s four or 500 square miles of area.

  Patrick Francey: So, what took you to Africa originally, where you discovered the thought process or saw the opportunity? Was it just a vacation thing? You said, “Let’s go to Africa, let’s do a safari. You got there, you had a great experience, and you went, “I need to do more of this, is that the context for

  David Gerber: it? Yeah, that was a bit of it, and , and people do ask, and often ask me, , oftentimes the first question after I mention this is, people go, how did you get into this, right? , how did you end up on foot with lions, and even, even with the safari vehicle safaris, a lot of that was just, it was always something that was exciting to me about it, this idea, and I, it was funny at first. It was , I don’t know, , where did I get this idea that it’d be cool to see lions in the wild, and really it traces back, and I tell this story at length in the, in the book, because I, when I sat with it for a minute, I had this memory from when I was 15 years old, so when I was 15 years old, my family, my dad was military, and so we moved around every two to three years. And I remember when I was 15, we moved, and it was a really difficult move for me. It was at a time in my life where I didn’t have a lot of self-confidence. I remember at one point when I went to this new school, I went for two months walking around the school, and I literally didn’t look at or say hi to anybody. I remember I would , I would , look down, and I’d look up just to make sure I wasn’t running into somebody, and look back down, and I just was , I didn’t know how to make friends or talk to girls, or whatever it was, ? I was just figuring my way out. So I was at a really pivotal point in my life, I think, where I was really first of all discovering who I was, and I had this moment. Meant in, so, so my parents took, took our family to the zoo, I think, to try to cheer us up, and it was one of those super, super hot midwestern days, where I felt it was 95 or 100 degrees, and humid is all, all heck, and so your clothes are sticking to your body in all the wrong places, and and we’re going around the zoo, and I’m grumpy, and , I’m , nothing’s going to cheer me up, and, and all I remember is coming around this corner and seeing this line in this enclosure, and it was interesting, because even though it was one of, , the saddest lines in the world, and it’s pacing back and forth, it’s got a bald spot on its back, where it’s rubbed up against this cage that it obviously doesn’t belong in,

  David Gerber: it’s it’s, but, but even still, even with it being one of the saddest lions, there was some weird thing happening in me that I couldn’t, I couldn’t put words to. I didn’t even know it was when I was 15 years old, I was trying to figure my life out, but I remember seeing this, , I mean, this head is just massive, I mean, it’s this huge head, and I’m looking at this thing, and I’m , , I’d seen, , this is before the internet, essentially, , and so I’d seen pictures of lions and encyclopedias at the school library, but certainly nothing this, right? It was almost a mythological figure, and so I just had this moment with this lion, where I, , I realized a lot of things, and it took a little while to really realize everything that happened there, but it was, , 25 years later when I found myself on foot with lions, I came back to that story, and I was , “Oh, I think that was the origin point, because something happened inside of my body that I couldn’t put words to, but it was it was, it was visceral, and so then when I was out on foot with lions, and I felt that same experience of , oh, wow, maybe this is the experience in my body I’ve been looking for my whole life, and it started to bring me back to this wild version of who I could be or who I was and wanted to become.

  Patrick Francey: So it’s, it’s interesting that we have these fork in the road moments, right? And I sometimes wonder, as you’re speaking, I’m thinking about, have I ever had that experience where you have that, you say, that visceral sense or feeling in your body, and I can’t, I can’t say as I have, but I can definitely understand and picture what it was for you. So then you go back to, again, you go back to Africa, I think that what’s interesting about that fork in the road moment for you is you actually acted on it, you listen to your body, and which is, I think, some people pass those things by. So,

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  [12:00] The Lion Is You and Living Wild

  Patrick Francey: so you go back and you say, okay, I want to get closer or tighter with nature and with the animals, you go there, you start tracking, you learn that, and I, before I forget, and I don’t want to step over, you mentioned your book. This is a book you’ve just recently, recently released.

  Patrick Francey: Got It, and so what’s the the context of the book, if you will. Overview, we’ll come back to it, but I just, to give people a sense of,

  David Gerber: yeah, yeah. So, the brief overview of it is, is that this thing of a real brief one is that we’re essentially born, in my opinion, wild and adventurous, and most times when I say that to people, they’re , oh yeah, when I was a kid, I would go run through the forest, or , I don’t know if this is much in today’s world, but when I was a kid, run through the forest, run in the desert. We lived in Phoenix for a while, and just remember being a kid, and just, , jumping off of walls, and I don’t know, , just doing stupid stuff, and then , ending up in the yard later, or whatever it was, and and then it’s almost there’s this time in life where we start to, I would say, based on societal conditioning, we become more tame or caged, is what I used in the book, because it’s – I’m using metaphors with the lions. So, you think about a lion in the zoo, lion in the wild, and if you see one in the zoo and you see one in the wild, the difference is so ridiculous, it’s almost it’s a different animal. And so I started to realize, , how much I’d become caged, and oftentimes in life we become caged, sometime I think in our teenage years, where we become hard to have becoming self-conscious, , we’re obviously, we’re there’s so many changes in life at that time, and then I think, so then the end of the book is all about, so the subtitle of the book is Lessons from the Wild on how to be on coming alive again, and so it’s all about how do we rediscover that spirit of that that version of us that was so wild and adventurous and wasn’t tame and wasn’t caged and it wasn’t essentially stripped of all of our adventurous nature and so that’s that’s generally what the book is about

  Patrick Francey: got it so so you go on this path you start tracking lines, and specifically we want to shine a light on, you weren’t hunting them, you were actually just tracking them to observe and to be out in the wild and to look at their natural habitat, how they operate, etc. So then at some point, where did the connection going? Oh, , the whole metaphor. Or for being a lion and your inner lion or whatever language that you use, where did that connection start to unfold for you? Was it while you’re out there going, , some people this is, I see this in people, or I see this in leaders. How was how did you start to connect those dots?

  David Gerber: Yeah, I think it’s a really great question, because I, and I know I get into in the book, and I’m looking for, , in the even in, , a bit of that origin, it’s, it’s, , I think when I, when I went through the heartbreaking divorce that I went through, , that has those moments in life had this, this way of waking you up, and it was, there was so much involved in that for me, I grew up in a, , Christian home or divorce is a big, terrible thing. So, there was not only, , the fact that I’m going through the heartbreak, I’m also going through this fear that now I’m a divorced person, , and that that I was , oh man, , what are people going to think of me, because I know so many assumptions in that world about what it means to be divorced. So, I’m going through all that stuff, and even as I was going through a lot of the therapy and coaching I’ve gone through in the last five six years, what I really, I really started to look at, what’s the lesson I can really learn from this, and how can I grow, because so many people that I find when they go through a divorce, that it, it becomes, I’m trying to think about how to say it, they hate their ex, and it’s they have to say so many bad things about it, and it’s this terrible thing. And I remember I had a conversation with a friend one time, and I kept saying, ‘Oh, my failed marriage, and he had said, ‘, why do you keep saying that? And I was , ‘Why isn’t that what it is, right? And he said, ‘Well, what if what if it was just a relationship that was lasted for 10 years and then it ended? And I was , ‘Huh, I hadn’t thought about that, and so that reframe really helped me, because then it allowed me to see and really learn from everything, and one of the things I really noticed is I started really learning a lot about masculine, feminine dynamics in the world, if you will, and I realized throughout my marriage one of the things I would say that I learned from it was I wasn’t really stepping into, I had almost lost that adventurous spirit of myself, but I think I become tame, which I think , just, , I’m not saying that’s the reason for the whole thing, but I just saw all of that, and I was , wow. And then, when I was, when I was out with the lions on foot, and I still remember the first time I got charged by a lion, because generally speaking, lions want to get away from humans, and we can get into more of that, but once in a while a lion will charge at you, and if you, if it charges at you, you have to, you, the only thing you cannot do is you can’t run, because if you run, you’re now, you’re, , now things get really dicey, , because you’re not going to run the line, obviously, because they run 50 miles an hour, so, so you have to stand your ground, if you stand your ground, they’ll run at you, and then they’ll stop, and then they’ll turn, , they’ll try to intimidate you, and then they’ll turn around, and it’s the most mind-blowing thing. And I remember the first time that happened, it sent this shock wave through my body, and, and I, it was something that resonated so deeply in my body that I was , oh, this is the thing I want to feel in my life, I want to feel this, and whether that’s, , writing a book or speaking on a stage or coaching someone, or, or, , going for a walk or meditating, I think there’s so many ways we can experience this, but when we’re not connected to, , what that feeling is in our nervous system or our bodies, because I feel people are so disconnected, there was just something that resonated so deeply. I was , this is the feeling I’ve wanted to feel my whole life, that I think that I had as a kid. I got a glimpse of it when I was 15 with that line in the zoo, but then I feel for 25 years I largely lost that feeling because I got so disconnected, and I was trying to prove myself as a person or as a coach or a business, , all these things we try to do that we grasp for that don’t actually return that, and I feel that that was the gift that the lions gave me was this is it, you knew you were never meant to be caged, you were always meant to be wild, but when you, when you choose to leave the cage and go into the wild, you also have to accept everything that comes with the wild, where, meaning you don’t get your three meals a day, you don’t get, , you got to fight for your territory, right? I’ve, I’ve, , and so, so when you go out into the wild, now you got to hunt for your own food, you’re not getting your free three meals, and so, so I just thought you’d have all of these correlations come together, of , man, I know what it’s to feel caged. I now know what it’s to feel wild, , having a line run at me, and I’m , I’ll take the wild all day long, right? , there’s just no way I can go back to a caged life, because it’s just , there’s no way, . So, I hope that that gets around to the question you asked.

  Patrick Francey: Well, no, I think I mean, it gives a lot of context to the whole thought process, and I think that point that you make, right at the end, where you said, , are we living, or it’s an observation. I think a caged life is a cool metaphor, if you will, for being free and being out in the wild, and , dealing with all the things at that point, . Being out in the wild versus being caged in this enclosure, where you’re probably safer, but you’re also very limited, and not a lot of creativity in that particular space. There’s not a lot of living in that in a cage. So that is an interesting thought process to enter in this conversation. Now let’s connect the.to I think Novus Global is business that your partner or owner. What’s where does this picture?

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  [20:00] Novus Global and Coaching High Performers

  David Gerber: So, I’m harder at Novus Global, and just to see how it all fits in. So, I joined Novus Global about 10 years ago. So, I started coaching 15 years ago, coached on my own for five, six years, and then joined Novus Global, and I was one of the original six that started. It was originally started by one guy who just had this dream. Jason Jaggert is amazing. We’ve been a friend of mine for 20 years, and he had this dream of, , hey, could we get coaches together to do this as a, as a collective, right? And could we all benefit in ways that were incredible and impact the world in ways that are incredible as well. And so, so we, what’s what’s really fun is, as we’re recording this, we’ve just crossed over 100 coaches that are a part of the firm now, which is really, really fun, and we, , it took a bit of a while to get going out of the gate, but, but now we’ve got a lot of traction, which has been really fun, and so, yeah, so I’ve been a part, a part of that for, , nine or 10 years, and it’s one of the best decisions I’ve ever made is to join the firm, and it comes with its, there’s a lot of growing pains, there’s a lot of things where , , I’m not, I’m not just on my own anymore, so there is some things there, but I mean, I’m telling you, it’s the, the I mentioned, it’s one of the best decisions I’ve ever made, and can’t imagine if I had never joined them, but so it’s been really, really great journey so far.

  Patrick Francey: So, is give me a little bit of background on Novus Global. Is it a, you said you got there’s 100 coaches within that organization, are they contractors or they they’re not on a payroll, I’m assuming they’re independent.

  David Gerber: And yeah, so was when we, when we started, sorry, yeah, so when we started, it was, it was all 1099 contractor status, but due to some law changes, we couldn’t actually continue that way, and so we actually had a moment where we had to decide which way to go, and we needed to pick a different direction, and we actually chose to go with a franchising model, and so now each coach is an own franchise model, franchise owner, and then so, so we all work very heavily as a collective, we’ve got structures internally that, that, that are designed because one of the biggest things is I’m sure you’re aware of is when when companies grow, how do you keep the culture, and we have been so intentional on how do we keep the culture, because the culture we formed where we began, that’s evolved a little bit, we love the culture, and we really wanted to, , we’re dead set on how do we maintain the culture even as we grow, and we’re really proud of how we’ve done that, and we continue to evolve and have meetings, and , figure out how do we keep doing that, and so, yeah, I think that does that answer the question you asked me?

  Patrick Francey: Yeah, I think so. I’m curious, is that so? Is Novus Global, is that a source for somebody? So, if I’m looking for a coach, am I going to find Novus Global somewhere along the lines, and I’m then looking at the profiles of different coaches, going, ‘this might be a fit, or am I doing an application? I’m just interested in the model and how that works.

  David Gerber: Yes, yeah, so that I generally say that. So, the way we approach it is every coach is responsible for their own work, and you likely get work from the firm, but we invite when we, when people are interested in joining, first of all, they have to go through our training program to, to even be considered to join, so you can’t just, we don’t just hire people off the, , just whatever, hire them, so when we people are considering joining, we say we want you to consider joining, even if you never got no work ever came from the firm, and most likely you’ll get work from the firm, so, so then the way people can find us, so if let’s say somebody goes to our website and they’re , hey, I’m interested in having a coach, then you’ll, you’ll, you’ll meet with one of our team, and then the goal is to find you a really, a really great fit as a coach, based on whatever your goals, industry objective are, because right now we work with, we work with a huge segment that works with professional athletes, professional sports teams, we’ve got teams that work in entertainment, construction, and then manufacturing, so we have these different divisions now that we’re working in different spaces, and that’s all just come out of different passion areas for the different coaches have, so some coaches have been really, really passionate about about getting into the construction space or professional sports space, and then they, they go for that, and then that’s what they do.

  Patrick Francey: Got it? And so, and where do you fit in, in terms of your own coaching? You’ve worked with professional athletes, CEOs, is that something that you’re still in the trenches doing, or have you evolved to doing other things?

  David Gerber: Yeah, so I primarily work with professional athletes right now. I think I’ve got three or four executives, business owner types, which I love the crossover between mental performance, whether you’re a professional athlete or an executive, so I really enjoy. Having a split between those clients, all right now, and so that’s where my current client sell list lives, and I really enjoy the variety that I’ve got at this point.

  Patrick Francey: as much as I’m a business owner, and and been in business over 40 years, and all the things that I’ve done, my wife is also what we refer to as a world and Olympic class mental performance coach, so she just came off her fifth Olympics, and actually she works with 14 or 18 teams around the world that she works with,

  Patrick Francey: yeah, so she’s in the skating world, she’s works with dance teams, and so she actually works with the US silver medalist world champions as well.

  Patrick Francey: Yeah, Evan and Madison, so the.. so there’s an area of interest there that I to unpack. What it is, , what’s your view, and I mean, there’s so many different styles of coaching, and what we do,

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  [26:00] Professional Athletes and Nervous System Regulation

  Patrick Francey: How do you bring, how do you fold that thought process into your coaching? How do they connect, so that when you’re working with whatever client you’re working with,

  David Gerber: it? I love that, even the question there. So, so last year, so I now take also take guests with me out tracking lions, and so if people are interested, I do a couple of trips every year, and so people can come and join me, and it’s a very unique experience. And so last year, one of my athletes came with, and he plays in the NHL, and so I get that you’re a hockey fan, and obviously being in Canada, you’re gonna be a hockey fan. It feels one

  Patrick Francey: of my businesses, by the way, is called Pro Skate. So, for 43 years, and Stephanie, my wife, was actually a skating coach for the Edmondson Oilers, St. Louis Blues, and any number of professional players. So, hockey is

  David Gerber: what’s funny is the guy that started our sports division, is he was, he was nearly an Olympic speed skater, and so I’m even curious, if you , you may have known him or something that, because I think he’s about 40 now, and I wonder if who knows how small those worlds are.

  David Gerber: chat afterwards. You probably have heard of him, and it’s anyway. So now I’m trying to get five moments to the question. I get excited about something, and

  David Gerber: they connect? Yeah, so one of my, one of my players came with last year, and we were out in the bush for six days tracking lions, and him, and I would just talk on the side, or we talk afterwards when we got back, and for him, one of the biggest things is, , because in professional sports it’s such an intense atmosphere, and much similar to tracking lions, can, can be, can be very not intense when you’re just out walking looking, but there’s still this anticipation, but when you encounter lions, there can be this intensity, especially if you get charged at it’s a very intense moment, and so what he loved about it was just how, how much he learned how to feel his nervous system and his entire body, and and and then to learn how to have it get heightened, but how do you then re-regulate, and so that was one of the things him and I worked a lot on, and obviously with business owners that can be that too, but usually business isn’t quite as intense as, , hockey game is , , for two hours and 45 minutes, it’s we’re on, and then it’s a break for a day or two, and then we go back at it, and so, so there was, there was that component of it. The other thing, he, it was funny that something he, I didn’t expect that he would have loved so much was there’s really no, no internet out there, and so there’s a little hotspot at the camp, but it, , it’s pretty worthless, you can’t even hardly get on Instagram, and so you, but certainly when you’re in 10, your tenant night, there’s no internet available, and so you actually just, there’s no scrolling capacity with athletes that they’re on planes and busses, and lots, , not lots of.. I mean, they do have a lot of free time, but obviously they’re they’re recovering all that stuff that. But their tendency is a lot of these guys, one of their biggest things is they know is they’re scrolling a lot, and so for him, he was just , man, the idea of having, , just six days where I wasn’t scrolling, he was. It was so refreshing, and he got this glimpse of what it’s to be with your thoughts and be bored and connect to your creative part of your brain and let your mind wander. And so, for him, , the impact has been tremendous on just how much time he intentionally, , doesn’t pick up his phone and just lets his mind be creative.

  Patrick Francey: Do you find David is my own experience around men in general? So, do you work primarily with men, or do you work both men and women?

  David Gerber: I would say, , it does vary from time to time. Right now, I think it’s primarily men, but it’s there’s been times where my half my client list is women and half men, it. It just just, it varies.

  Patrick Francey: Sure, I, the reason I bring it up is because it is, it certainly is different. What you just described, , is a young NHL player. They’re young relatives. I’m 68 so everybody’s young to me, so that’s how that rolls. But they are younger, they’re, , they’re still going through and discovering who they are, aside from being an athlete, but I’ve done different men’s groups that I to bring men together, small men’s groups, and programs with them. It’s really just a high area of interest for me. So, yeah, but my observation, and what you just said was the, , your client experiencing something that he’s never experienced, , physically in his body, and actually having awareness of going, “Oh, hold it, if I don’t have all these distractions, and I’m being with myself.

  Patrick Francey: a whole different experience. And I remember with one particular men’s group, I once asked the question, or asked, or made the statement, , “Are you aware of your thoughts, , what

  Patrick Francey: was so foreign to them, yet it’s so what I do personally, and I’m not saying what I do is right, but it is an interesting, so you had that experience. Does that open up way different doors of conversation? And then that whole journey of self-discovery is that really puts it in place. I’m assuming,

  David Gerber:: yeah, very much so. And there is this thing that’s interesting that happens, and I don’t know if it’s just with men, because I’ve had women come out tracking with me as well, and sure, people just start to open up and start talking, . It’s we get back to this, , this almost this campfire mindset, or campfire consciousness, however we want to call it, where people used to sit around the campfire and there was no screens, and it was we would talk to each other, and you look across the fire, and you’d see somebody, and you’d talk to them, and you’d tell stories, and that was so for so long of human history, that’s what we did, and people, so when you get them out in the wild, and you have these experiences and encounters with these animals, it, , you almost want to talk about, man, what did that, what did that do to you, how’d that feel, , and what was that , and there’s just such this primal thing that seems to come to the surface of, oh, I want to, I want to open up, I want to think about my thoughts, I want to talk about them, I want to know what’s going on in my inner world and what my experience of life is right now, and, and so it definitely really seems to just naturally have this capacity to open people up, yeah,

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  [32:00] Self Mastery, Fear, and Standing Your Ground

  Patrick Francey: as you’re talking about a lion that comes at you, , there’s so, in my own world of what I’ve observed over many years is that we go on these journeys of what we would call personal development, and then we maybe step into professional development, and then we start. Stephanie and I have a podcast, we’re going to change the name, it’s right now, it’s been, we call it Mindset Matters, yeah, , but then there’s the mindset component of it, but and we’ve been doing that for five years, and when we, it’s just her and I having cool short conversations, 30 minute long conversations, we pick a topic and unpack it, got a good following, and it’s fun for us, we enjoy it, but we grew beyond that, so I’m sharing this with you because your coach, and I’d to see and hear your perspective in this context, if I can lay it out properly, so then we go to mindset, and I’m going, , some mindset doesn’t really land for me. And then I coined a phrase, you’ve heard of Feng Shui, Feng Shui,

  Patrick Francey: so the energy flows. When I was in audiences, when I’m talking to them, I always say, gentlemen, if you’ve never heard of Feng Shui, don’t worry about it, but I guarantee your house has been feng shui, right? That’s just how that rolls, right? But in an accident of a conversation, I coined the phrase My Shui, which,

  Patrick Francey: Feng Shui for the mind, right? So that, that was a whole thought process there, but then I went on to saying, okay, but there’s something beyond this, and this is where I want to get, and this is what I use the term as we grow into this, because mindsets having mindset is about how we view the world outside of

  Patrick Francey: how we, how we process what we’re seeing, or the environment we’re in, or whatever it is, but it’s outside of us, and then I went, now for me, where I’ve evolved to in my own thought process, who I am, and in my own coaching style, is really about self mastery. It is self mastery, which is an inside job. That’s how I point it. So, the reason I bring that up is that when you think about self mastery, you’ve got a charging lion. Okay, you go through that experience, and you have to, in a moment, calm yourself to the degree where you’re not, you’re going against your natural propensity to run.

  Patrick Francey: yes. So, you have to be really, , that’s an inside job. That’s my thought, but I’d , , is there some place where you. Expand on that thought process, David.

  David Gerber: Yeah, yeah. And then tell me if this aligns with, with what you’re thinking. There is, , yeah. So, when, when even as the guides are, , preparing you as we’re going out, , I’m pretty sure that the safety briefing at the Disney at Disneyland was longer than the safety briefing I got. It literally was , hey, we’re gonna be out there on foot, listen to the guides, don’t run, and it’s you’re , okay, got it, so your brain, you’re , okay, so don’t, don’t run, don’t run, don’t run, but then you’re also visualizing, , this again, the male lion with this massive head and mane, , running at you, and , growling, , yeah. And I’m thinking, don’t run, , okay. And I’m just , think, okay, well, they’ve been doing this, , doesn’t sound anybody’s gotten eaten yet. So, , let’s give this a shot, right? Let’s, , at this point in my life, I was , let’s just full send this thing, whatever, let’s go figure this out. And so I still remember it was, we were, , we were walking there, and, and all of a sudden, , we’d seen this lion that it looked he had a kill that he was essentially guarding. It was funny because we’d seen a bunch of hyenas in the area, and at first I was nervous with the hyenas, and the guys were , they’re , they’re that, look at how they run away from you. They want nothing to do with you, but hyena, , can be a, , if it wanted to be, is a very dangerous animal.

  David Gerber:: they have one of the strongest bites on the planet, when you, when you’re out walking, if you see droppings that are white, it’s hyena, because hyenas literally just eat bones, it just, they just eat bones it’s meat, . So I see the hyenas, I’m , , they look aliens, by the way. They’re just weird-looking animals. And so I remember, , asking, it is a gadget, , “Oh, don’t worry about them. And so then we’re keep walking, keep walking in. Then we see in this big thicket, I see this animal behind it, but I can’t really see clearly, and I’m thinking it’s another hyena. And then I see its tail wag back and forth, and I’m looking at the hyenas, I’m looking at the looking at the other thing, and I go, “Oh, that’s a lot, that’s , it’s the first time I’ve seen this lion, right? So I see this lion who took a few more steps as we wanted to get us, because it’s almost every step closer you feel this energy, right, and with what you’re talking about, self mastery, it’s so now I’m having this whole conversation in my head about , I want to get closer to his energy, because it’s really powerful, and it feels amazing, and I want to get a closer view of this guy, but also every step closer, , it’s gonna.. I don’t know what’s gonna happen at this point, I have no idea what’s gonna happen, and then all of a sudden you hear this low growl, this, , and it’s it sends shock waves through your system, multiple shock waves. So I’m , okay, usually growling, that’s, , but it’s also , man, this is just such a riveting experience on what these guys, I think they know what they’re doing. So you’re having all these conversations in your head the whole time about what’s going to happen, and all of a sudden, as we’re, , wanting to get a little bit closer to him, all of a sudden he just bolts through this thicket, and he just, , comes through this thing, , and I’m just , , what is happening right now?

  David Gerber: I know, I can’t run, and it’s weird, because you, the most people, when I talk to them about going with me, they’re , I could never stand my ground, and I was , you think that, but what’s so fascinating is your brain is almost.. it’s your brain is not stupid, it’s your brain is intelligent enough to have the calculation of , if I run, I’m going to be in a world of hurt pretty quick, and if I stay on my ground, I’m going to be safe, so I still remember, though, think I was running at us. I end up taking a step back. I take one step back. It’s almost the energy just moved me back, and in this, this guide I remember just put his hand on my elbow, and he just said stay. And I just felt this new sensation in my body of , okay, I got this, and it’s almost the energy, and this is part about community, and why I love that was global so much. Is it’s almost we need to be around people that we need to be people that, who, sorry, let’s say to do it two ways. One is I want to be around people who make me more brave, and I also want to be somebody that they become more brave when they’re around me. And so I felt this calmness. It’s almost the calmness from the guy transferred from his body into mine. And then I got to be super ultra present, rather than panicking, I got a grounded, I felt calm, and this line runs at us, gives us a great growl, gets 15 yards from us, then he just paws the ground, growls, and then he turns around, runs back to his kill, , and I had this moment where, when we talk about self-mastery, where I stood in the face of something that was, , so dangerous, and there’s this pride and this courage and this bravery, you’re , wow, I really, I didn’t think I could do that and. Even when I thought back to, , going through my divorce, I remember thinking at one point in my life, I thought, man, if I ever went through a divorce, that would kill me, , I would never make it. I thought it’d be the worst thing ever. And they get, don’t get me wrong, it wasn’t, wasn’t a walk in the park, but once I remember being on the other side of it, I remember thinking, oh, I just made it through the thing that I thought I couldn’t make it through, and I didn’t die, and you have this moment with yourself where you’re , man, I’m pretty resilient. This is pretty incredible. , how I made it through that, I made it through a lion charge, I’ve made it through seven or eight lion charges. And then you start to, you get this embolden this to you, and it’s , oh, I wonder what things that I’ve told myself I’m afraid of that I, that I don’t need to be afraid of, and that’s that’s for me, where the self-mastery piece is woven in, and so now I’ve just , sometimes I’ll just do things that I would have been afraid of before, and I’m just , it’s just not that scary, and and then if I am scared of something, I had this thought, , with the guy grabbing my elbow, I had this thought where I said, , for everything that I’m afraid of in the world, there’s somebody on the planet who’s not afraid of it, and there’s this weird thought of snakes, lions, , whatever, there’s somebody on the planet who’s not afraid of it, and so if there’s something you’re afraid of, it’s , find somebody on the planet who’s not afraid of it, and get around them, and have them teach you, and so , so , now I mean, I’m still.. I get it. There’s still some healthy fear of lions, but the fear of lions has diminished so greatly, because I understand them now. And there’s a guy at the camp who’s that I go to, who’s wildly fascinated with snakes, and the guy, , picks up venomous snakes on a regular basis, and I know that it’s weird, as , if I spend enough time with this guy, I, my fear of snakes could diminish greatly too. And it’s so weird to think about these things, and whether it’s public speaking or, , writing a book, or whatever it is, it’s , get around people that aren’t afraid of it and just learn from them. And that’s been part of my self-mastery journey as well.

  Patrick Francey:: Yeah, there’s a phrase that I often use, which is, confidence is rarely owned, it’s often borrowed, and we borrow our confidence from those that we’re surrounded by, if we can, or might be a mentor, or somebody else, but ultimately these are examples, and it’s interesting, as I’m putting connecting some dots in my own brain about what you’re talking about, , we hear these things that whatever we want is just on the other side of that fear that we have to break through, or

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  [42:00] Fear of Judgment vs Fear of Failure

  Patrick Francey: game that we’re afraid to go into, that’s where we have to go into to actually gain what we’re looking for. So, when you’re, , if we put some start to put some meat on the bone, , around a context, , really, , and there’s another thing, is that it’s not that you don’t fear lions, there’s always that fear there, but you’ve learned to respect that lion, it’s, , it’s years ago, , I became quite good, quite a good swimmer, for example, but my dad used to always say to me, , don’t fear water, you have to respect water.

  Patrick Francey:: and it’s , don’t you don’t need to fear the line, but you definitely need to respect, and whether that’s a lion or a snake or something else. So, on the other side of whatever that is, that’s generally what’s in our way. So, as you’re working with your clients, and you think about the, , the adrenaline hit that you get from a line, or the fact that you didn’t run, or that you experience that moment where, holy cow, I may die.

  Patrick Francey:: you actually come through it, and you go, hey, I lived through it. So, is that the intention there, or some aspect of what you’re talking about David, is this really about you can face your fears and understand that on the other side, or whatever you want, on is it’s on the other side of whatever you’re fearing. So, in other words, we keep getting in our own way, and one of the ways we get in our own way is we buy into the fear because we tell ourselves a story of what it is, and we never really experience the truth, so we live on this side of it. Is that, is that translating in your thoughts?

  David Gerber: Yeah, transit, 100% And I would say, , another, maybe another way of saying it is that we think we fear the unknown, but we don’t actually fear the unknown. What we fear is what our brain puts into

  David Gerber:: yeah, the story, right? So that’s basically what you’re saying, that’s how I heard it, I’ve heard it said before, and so it’s, I don’t fear the idea of getting up in public speaking, or sorry, I don’t fear the unknown of it, I fear that, , if I get up and speak and lose, , forget my words or something that, which, funny enough, a year ago I was working on a key new keynote, and so our company retreat, I decided, okay, I’m gonna, it’s gonna tell people over lunch, I’m gonna do a practice run of it, and I’ve told you, it went so bad, it was so bad, it was there’s been so many times before where I was afraid of forgetting my lines, and I just never did, I always figured it out, and this. Time it actually happened, I got up there in front of 30 colleagues, they’re having lunch, I’m doing this dry run, and I literally, , my mind just goes blank, I’ve never had this happen before, , and that, and so it’s funny, as we, we fear that happening, but the most interesting thing happened in that moment, and good thing is, I recorded the whole thing, and it’s a complete disaster, in a way, but what’s so funny is, I , I refused to quit. I was , I’m gonna get through this thing, so I’d look at my notes, I’d come back, I’d go a little ways, I’d forget, , and I just worked my way through it. And it’s quite an emotional keynote, because it talks a lot about my journey, about the book, and stuff that. And my book is very raw and very vulnerable, and so, as I’m talking about some of these things, I start getting emotional. At one point, I literally , I’m just , I just lose it emotionally, because I’m telling, I’m telling a part of my story I’d never told to my company that I really wanted to share, and I told it many times to other people, and I thought I’d work through the emotion of it, but the good thing I did a practice run, and this wasn’t a professional gig, , whatever was, and so the craziest thing was after I got done with it, I had so much again, so much pride, because I was , man, I, I did the thing I might have been afraid of. I went, I went before I was ready, I took a swing, and then I had so many people come up to me afterwards. One gal came up to me afterwards, she was in tears, and she’s , that’s one of the best things I’ve ever heard in my life, and I was , I was , what I was , that was , , in terms of public speaking etiquette, it was awful, but what people, but what people said to me was, it was they said it was almost watching you give birth to something that you’ve been dreaming about,

  David Gerber: and so they, they felt so connected to me, and I’m a partner in the firm, and so I think people, there’s a lot of people at the company now that, , look up to me I’m this, , whatever, not perfect person, but you get the idea, it’s , oh, I’ve been around, whatever, and, and so they were , man, it was just, it was just good to see somebody that I look up to as being this seasoned coach, , totally basically a meltdown, , and you were, and you were willing to do it in front of all of us, and so again, and the good thing was I captured it on video, and I’ve, I shared about on Instagram, because I was , “Hey, , this, these things happen, you said, when you go beyond the thing that you’re afraid of, that’s where so much of the richness of life is. Yeah, we want that thing, but we don’t want to go through it, we don’t want to go through the divorce, we don’t want to go through the meltdown on stage, we don’t, , and so what’s cool is it’ll be part of my future story, , and the people that were in the room will have gotten to witness that keynote being birthed, , and so anyway, so anyway, I said that in so many words, but that is so true, and that’s if I were to use the last metaphor, cage versus wild, that’s what a wild lion does, is you’ve got to go out in the wild, you’ve got to fight some other lions, sometimes you’ve got to hunt for your food, you’ve got it’s a, it’s a wild world out there, and if you really want that adventurous life, that’s the, that’s the table stakes,

  Patrick Francey: , you, you mentioned something, so I’ve had that, I’ve had an experience, I’ve had that experience on stage where I got emotional over a topic that I hit, and all of a sudden the emotions sneaks up on you’re crying on stage, but I’ve had the experience where you’re embarrassed by it all, but then people have approached me afterwards and they just go, I just so appreciate the authenticity and the vulnerability that you displayed that gives them confidence in doing what they want to do, but

  Patrick Francey: yeah, there’s.. it’s interesting thought process that when we think about this, and this goes back to even the comments you made about your divorce, and what you felt as you felt the failure, or whatever that might be, and as I’m sure you’ve had these, , people, your clients, that have said one of their greatest fears is failure. Yeah, and , my experience over years of working with a ton of small business owners, 1000s of them, and when that statement comes up, I connect the dot, and I want to, I want to try it on for size with you, given your experience, and that is, we don’t fear failure. We actually fear the judgment of the people who are observing us, our friends, our peers, that what they’re going to think of us. That’s the real fear, less about the failure, although it, , might be money, and we always think in catastrophic terms,

  Patrick Francey:: you’re gonna lose everything if I, but ultimately, , even when you think about when you were talking about your divorce, there’s an aspect of it that you shared, which was, oh gosh, , it’s such the wrong thing, divorce is, , so coveted, and it’s, , but it’s really the thought process of what’s friends, family, they’re going to judge you, , you failed in the marriage, and all the stories we tell ourselves. And then, when you get through it, you come out the other side, and there’s probably, , there’s parts of it that you mourn the loss of that relationship, but they come out the other side of, and you go, “Hey, this is cool, this is me being able to go into what’s next, so my. Point is, it’s less about the fear of failure, it’s more about the fear of what people are going to think about us if we don’t achieve whatever it is that we’ve set out to do. What’s your thoughts on that conversation?

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  [50:00] Breaking Out of the Cage

  David Gerber: No, it’s interesting, because I, , my thought is, I think, as humans, I want to agree with what you’re saying, and I want to add to it, is I actually think we love failure, and I think the reason is because we love growth, and I think intrinsically we know that growth only comes from failure, not only, but largely, growth comes when you’re willing to just go before you’re ready, ship the thing, do the thing, write the book, whatever it is, and put yourself out there. And I had this moment, I was talking with a therapist, maybe a couple years ago, and I said, , I was saying to her, I want to know if I’m going to get married and have kids, and one of my biggest dreams in life is I want to get married and have kids, and I said to her, I was , I just want to know, I only want to do is I just want to know if that’s going to happen, I want that certainty, , and she goes and she said to me, and she knows me so well, she goes, Is that why you track wild lions, because you guarantees, because the reality is, is , she’s , you pay, he can go down the zoo, you can pay 20 bucks, go down to the zoo, and you guarantee to see a lion, and she said, but you apparently, you don’t guarantees, you don’t certainty, because you fly 10,000 miles to South Africa to go lock for lions on 500 square miles, where you don’t know where there are, there’s no guarantee you’re going to find them, and even if you do, if you’re, , , because we’ll, the ones we’ll track for four or five hours, we’ll see the lions, and we’ll get a minute with them, and then they’re gone, it’s crazy, right? And so she and I, it just, this big thing hit me at that moment, I was , man, I love certainty, I love failure, and it was such a different than this is the thing we’re on societal conditioning that I mentioned earlier about in the book, I talk about is we get so conditioned to think that it’s society tries to teach us that we don’t failure, that we don’t uncertainty. When in reality, I’m not, I mean, I want to know where I’m gonna sleep tonight, right? It’s , but , but generally speaking, is I think we’re built to love uncertainty, to love failure, and when we really lean in and embrace that the whole world opens up to us, and that’s the difference between the cage and the in the in the wild, is in the wild there’s a lot of uncertainty, a lot of failure. In a cage, , you get your three meals a day, you’re protected from the outside, you don’t have to hunt for your food, things that. But then there’s something that when we’re in the cage, there’s some rumbling telling us we don’t belong here, and then we get to decide if we’re going to listen to that or keep numbing it with all the ways that we numb it in society, and meanwhile I have this visual with it, where I’m , as I was writing the book, I realized I looked at, , I looked at the door to the cage, and it hit me that I hadn’t even looked over towards the door for so long, and when I looked over towards the door, I realized the door was open. So, here I was in this cage that I had built, and I blame society for building the cage for me, when actually I had built it myself. And then I, , I just didn’t look at the door ever, because I didn’t want to look at the door, because I just wanted to assume it was locked, and , no keys. And I look over and go, oh my gosh, the doors open. I’ve always had the opportunity just to walk out, but I got too, I got too cozy with my three meals a day, and , not having to hunt for my food.

  Patrick Francey:: , it’s such an interesting thought process, isn’t it? When we think about not everybody’s wired to test their limits, so we don’t know our limits until we fail, , and that’s just the ultimately part of the psychology of it, if you will. I think is part of it, and some people just are not prepared to do that. They cannot bust through that thought process of testing the limits. I think it’s Jimmy Carr, he’s a great comedian of Brit, and he, but he’s pretty profound, and he’s not even a comedian, comedian, I think he’s a lobbyist or political, but he’s pretty funny, profound in his thought processes, right, and he’s said very clearly, , we want the car, we want the house, we want all the nice things, if somebody gives that to you, it’s it’s kicking to the curb a month later, because there’s there’s nothing in it, there’s no reward, that’s a reward for hard work, that’s a reward for testing your limits, that’s the reward for taking a good idea and bringing it to fruition. Are the bells

  Patrick Francey: the money, all the rest of it handed to you? , it’s , okay, , it’s another car, it’s another there’s nothing there, and it’s an interesting thought process around that, and I don’t disagree. I often use that growth comes from testing our limits. We go to the gym, we have to work out, we have to lift heavier weights to get stronger, which means testing our limits. And sometimes we’re not going to be able to lift that weight, and then we’re going to have

  Patrick Francey: work at it. So, there’s all sorts of metaphors that go well that process. So, when you’re working with your clients, do you see a pattern? Is it consistently you’re going in, going, “Okay, where I got to enter this conversation is I’m going to find out where they are, what’s in their way? Because , , is that where you’re going in and helping them see for themselves where they’re , “I don’t know how to frame the question, so I’ll put it out there for now. Maybe you can read my mind around it.

  David Gerber: Yeah, one of the, one of the first questions, whenever I’m talking with somebody about working together, or even once we start working together, I come back to this question so many times. It’s one of my favorites, and it’s just simple. It’s, it’s, what is it you want that you don’t currently have, or I’ll add the word deeply, what is it you deeply want that you don’t currently have in your life, and and I’ll just, and people , oh, I want this, I want this, I want , whatever it is, and and then I’ll just get into the simple part of it’s just , what’s blocking that, right? And nine times out of 10, people, their first answers to what’s blocking them is something external, and pretty quickly I’ll guide them and see, okay, let’s pretend it’s nothing external blocking it, it’s something internal that’s blocking

  David Gerber:and that’s where the real juice usually comes from. Is how are you, , you said, how are you getting in your own way, which is such a common phrase it feels these days that I think gets thrown around, but I don’t think people actually really connect

  David Gerber: And so it’s based on this idea that it’s what if we’re the only thing in our own way, , and we think that we think that society or people have built the cage around us and thrown us in there, when actually we built the cage ourselves, by the way, by the perspective we have of life, and then we build the cage so beautifully that it doesn’t even look a cage anymore, right, and so we, and then we’ve been, we hide the door, or whatever it is, and the whole time the cage has been open, and so I love that’s when I get into that with people within usually 1015 minutes, I usually find some pretty deep stuff for them, which I just absolutely, absolutely love, and then that’s when we get to start doing the deeper work together,

  Patrick Francey: I mean, as humans, I don’t know if you agree with this, but as humans, we seek comfort. It seems that way, , that’s the generalization – is we, we seek comfort, we want it to be easier, and then we’re programmed because we’re seeing those, , moments in time that somebody snaps a picture, and we’re comparing ourselves to those moments and saying, oh gosh, that there’s that Ferrari or that nice house or that beautiful girl vacation, and so, yeah, that side of it all looks easy. And then, so, how is it for you? Because then , I’ll observe somebody you, or I’ll meet somebody yourself, where you’re not striving to be comfortable, or are you, and you’re being aware of it. Going, no, I want more than this. , yeah. What’s your psychology around

  David Gerber: it? Yeah, so one of the.. when we do our two-day trainings with companies, one of the.. one of my favorite parts to talk about is just human motivation, and similar what you say is so much of humans are their natural propensity is driven by comfort. So our CEO used to teach a class at Pepperdine University down in SoCal, and he would, in Pepperdine, is a private school, I think. Nowadays, it’s probably $300,000 for a four-year degree in room and board. It’s it’s not cheap, right? So, needless to say, the kids that are going there are not – they’re not poor, right? They’re pretty well to do. And so he would ask this question on the first day of class. It was the freshman, incoming freshmen. He’d say, “Okay, how much money you want to make in your life? And he was so blown away by these kids who probably came from homes that were again very well to do, and they would commonly say this phrase, “just enough to be comfortable, and that was such the wiring, and so we talk about how do we shift. Honestly, comfort’s fine, right? You, when you get into your bed at night, I’m not saying you want to be comfortable. We’re not sleeping on a bunch of rocks, right? And so comfort’s not the enemy, it’s just we don’t want it to be the primary driver, we want it to be the fourth or fifth driver, and we want to replace the primary driver with growth challenge things that, and so, so again, it’s not that it’s a bad thing, it’s just how much of my life is being driven by comfort, how much is being driven by some growth, and so that’s why with me, with the lions, it’s it is consistently a way for me to grow, because not only am I, we’re looking for the lions and someone’s getting charged, and it’s lots of, we’re out in the wild. It’s I’m also learning to be a tracker. So, actually, , funny enough, what I went two years ago, I went, and I took a 30 day sabbatical, and I went because I wanted to. I wanted to become a certified tracker, because they have these different levels. And so, I worked with one of the best trackers in the world, and actually got my level one tracking certification, which was so fun, and it really means nothing, but for me it was fun. But learning how to track, so.. so there is.. you can go tracking where basically the tracker just does all the work for you, and you get to just walk behind him, which sometimes it’s fun to do too, and you get to look around and look for things too. But then he’ll have me lead track, and it’s a.. it’s really.. it’s a growth process. It’s really. Challenging, because you fought, you have the track, and you’re in really good conditions, where it’s a lot of dirt, so it’s , do you see the big paw prints, and it’s this is easy. Then you go over some grass areas, or whatever, and you’re , lost the track, so now you got to learn new modalities of , okay, how do we refine the track? And so, and we talked about this, and tracking, it’s sometimes losing the track is part of finding the track, , and then, , all these fun life parallels and things that, so, so many good, good things come from it, but I think the shift for people to be, , that are listening, it’s if you were to give a percentage, if let’s say there’s two options, growth or comfort, what percentage of your life is driven by comfort versus growth, and oftentimes I think that will also correlate with, , how much fulfillment and satisfaction you have in life. The higher that percentage that’s driven by growth, typically the more excited you are in life, the more thrilled you are, and the more you’re driven by comfort, the more typically apathetic people experience life to be.

  Patrick Francey:So, I want to pivot a little bit as we start to wind down. We’re, we’ve been at this for a while, and love these conversations in this particular conversation, in this discussion that we’re having, given your background in business and all the rest of it. What hasn’t come up is money, which is fine. I don’t have – I’m not attached to it. But what shows up for me is a question, which is, where does money fit into this? Now, I know that your business owner and your business is doing well, all the rest of it, but that,

  Patrick Francey: that’s not a, that’s not a main driver for you, is what I, what I get, but I don’t know, is, is it seems your values, money’s somewhere in your higher values, but it’s not a primary thing, you don’t wake up going, how am I going to make money, you wake up thinking, , how am I going to push myself, have a new experience, , do something, , be a contribution. Yeah, where does that all fit for you?

  David Gerber: Yeah, that’s a great question. I think when I play with this in my mind a lot, because I grew up, , I would say I grew up when I was really young, I’d say we were fairly poor, and then maybe more middle class when I was in high school, time frame, whatever it was, and so, but I definitely picked up some of the stuff around limits, limiting beliefs around money, and I’ve worked a lot, read a ton of books about it, got coached, therapy, all the fun things about it, and I also realized in that whole process that it’s, , people think that they want money, but they don’t actually want money, because if I said to somebody, hey, I’ll give you a bag full of $10,000 cash, but the caveat is, I’m sorry, $10 million cash, the caveat is you have to sit in a jail cell with your money. It’s , well, nobody, nobody’s taking that. And I saw a really interesting video on Instagram the other day that just said, hey, if I gave you $10 million with the caveat that you don’t get to wake up tomorrow, would you take it? And the guy said, “Well, no. And they said, “Okay, so what you’re telling me is that waking up tomorrow is worth more than $10 million? And I was , “Man, that’s that’s good, ,

  David Gerber: really simply profound. , and so I think, as I’ve, as I’ve played it out, , I really drive more towards what is it I want the money for and why do I want the money, and whatever it is, and with clients I work on this all the time, it’s what’s the point of it, and well, what are you willing to trade for it? And I would say, for me, I’m driven so much by impact, , I do a lot of volunteer things, it’s before Covid, when I lived in California, I would go once a month and I would spend a full day in a Mac security prison working with people on this, doing this work, and it was, I made no money on it, it was so fulfilling, and it was I tried a full day for it, where I’d wake up at, , I think it was five or six in the morning, I’d drive three or four hours to a max security prison in the middle of California, and then be there all day, and then come home, and that was some of the most fulfilling work that I did, and some of the work I’ve done, , me and my CEO, we’ve went over to Cambodia and Thailand, and we’ve worked with nonprofits over there, and most, when we’ve went a lot of times, we’ve, we , we pay, , we, we, it’s money out of pocket for us, and I just didn’t care, because it was so fulfilling. And so, what I’ve, what I’ve found is that when I, when I go after the stuff that I’m passionate about, I did, is a thing that’s common in the, in the world, but it’s the money seems to find me that I need for it, and, and I find that what we’re really, I really think this, and this is a bit of my word in the book I use a lot, is this word of aliveness, is I really think that what we’re seeking is aliveness, and it’s a bit of what Joseph Campbell talked about in a lot of his work with the hero’s journey, is we’re seeking the feeling of being alive, and so for me, I’m not, I’m just not willing to trade that feeling for money, if, if the money, , I just trust that the more alive I am, the more the money will, the more the money will find me, and so when I’m working with clients, and when I’m out checking lions, or I’m coaching them, what I’m really listening for, whenever I’m across the Zoom screen from somebody, or , a. The table, or whatever it is, is I’m, I’m really listening to their sense of aliveness, , and are they alive, and I want them to be connected to that as well, because I think, again, societal conditioning does play a factor, and we get so conditioned to just money, or, , car, or house, or whatever it is, and we’re not, we’re not, we’re not connected to, , oh, I can have all that stuff, but I could be completely dead, . And I’m sure you’ve, again, certainly you’ve seen this in your lifetime, where people have the cars and the houses and the, and , whatever, the private jet, or whatever, even, , and it’s , and they’re, and they’re just, they’re not happy, and you’re , man, what is this all for, ? And so I think, and Jim Carrey, Jim Carrey has that famous, , video where he talks about that, where it’s , I wish everybody could become famous for a bit, so they could see that that doesn’t satisfy either. And so I think, if so, my thing is, yeah, How do we, how do we find that aliveness now, and then live it out, and then trust that we’ll find our way, we’re, , we’re tracking lions just one track at a time, and you never know where the lines are going to go, you never, or where they’re going, you never know what they’re going to be up to, and that’s it’s, but it’s the beauty of, , just what’s the next track, what’s the next track, and then you , you see a track, you look up, you scan the area, you look down again, you find a track, , it’s just this full anticipation of excitement and aliveness that comes through it

  Patrick Francey: Well, yeah, that’s just, I love that thought process that what you make is, as you said, that I’m thinking about young children who are a lot, they’re having fun, it’s all an adventure, , it’s all, , they haven’t done that, they’re too young, they haven’t experienced all this, and it’s all they’re very alive, we get into maybe a routine, we get into that comfort, we get into our cage, and yes, you pace around the cage, and pretty soon there’s it just crushes life, it crushes the excitement of life. It was interesting to note, and I don’t know where I’m going with this, but this past weekend we were at an event, there was about 600 business owners, real estate investors, and I facilitated a panel of some very successful individuals, but as I was observing the crowd, and they were taking questions from the crowd. What I realized is the crowd was putting everybody on the stage on a pedestal.

  Patrick Francey: I could see it, I could hear it in the questions, and I shared a story, and I share this with you because it really, I see it in you, or I’m hearing it in what you’re saying. And that was, I rarely ask my guests on this podcast. So, I’ve been doing this podcast for 10 years. I’ve interviewed hundreds of guests, really cool people, very successful. But I rarely ask them how they define success. I actually quit asking the question, because it would catch many people off guard, and they didn’t really have a definition, and one particular guest, and I don’t remember who it was, doesn’t matter so much, although I’d love to give him credit. I asked him that question, and he was really clear. He says, when I wake up in the morning, I to open my eyes, take a breath, reclose my eyes, and then I asked myself, am I living the vision for my life, and if the answer is yes, then I’m successful.

  Patrick Francey: and I realized in that question, as I was watching this crowd, and I shared that story, is that they were observing others, thinking that putting that vision in their life, and a realization in that moment was that now, what’s your vision? What is the vision for your life, so that you can lean into it, own it, celebrate it as you achieve the goals that you achieve, and are you living the vision for your life? So, as you’re speaking, money’s although always in the background, having the vision for your life, which is to have those experiences, to feel alive, to have an impact in others’ life, to be a contribution, all of the things that you’ve hit on as we’ve talked through in this particular podcast. Does that resonate with you in terms of that thought processes, and many of your clients, and I know, in my own experience, and even for myself, I sometimes have to go, where did what is my vision for my life these days? Where has it gone? And as I’ve gone through these phases of my life again, , at this age, and I’m looking, and I’m , what is my vision for this next phase of aging? As my body gets a little sore,

  Patrick Francey: and all the shit that goes on, right? , and now my vision really includes my daughter and her husband and my grandkids

  Patrick Francey: connecting all those dots is a little bit different. So, how do.. what’s your thoughts on, on, on your. maybe you do have a definition for your success.

  David Gerber: Yeah, , it’s.. I always , if it’s okay, I always to tell a story in terms of, , rather than just give an answer per se. And it was interesting, and obviously, , I could tell so many line stories around, , that is success for me, , as I. That feeling, that experience, and tell me if this aligns or lands, but I remember, , walking with a, then Denver, the friend of mine, and he said, , we’re talking about stuff of faith, right, and he’s , what’s what’s God these days for you, what’s Jesus , because I grew up in a Christian home, and, and my faith has, , evolved a lot since I was a kid, and I’m really proud of, , how I’ve, , engaged it, and just, , , step the way at times, and come back, and , , really explored it, and that thing, and, and I had this, and I told them three stories, and I wrote them down somewhere, because I didn’t want to lose it, because I was , I this answer, versus just, , oh, well, giving the right answer to it, right, and so I remember saying, , , that when I was, when I was a young kid, my brother and I, we, for whatever reason, we had a grapefruit tree in our, in our yard in Phoenix, and we got this idea one time where we, , one time I remember, I threw a grapefruit onto the road, and then a car drove past it, and it would, when it drove over and make this funny noise, whack, whack, , both wheels would hit it, and then we just laugh, I don’t know why it was so funny, but when you’re a five year old kid and you don’t have a screen in front of you, this is this is better than Instagram, right? And so I mean we would do this all day and we would laugh, and then my parents would come home from work and there’d be a 30 or 40 foot stretch of the road next to our house that would be covered in grapefruits, right? It wasn’t me, it’s , so obvious, right? It’s , it’s, it’s , , yeah, you get the idea, right? It’s all I get scolded, and, and, and usually spank, because that was discipline at the time, and, and I, but then the next day, again, we just do it again, and it was always , well, this, I guess, , I guess the thrill of doing this is better than getting spanked, or whatever, and I just remember, so I said, , I think Jesus would have done it with us, right? I don’t think He would have scolded us, I don’t think God is always mad at us all the time, and don’t throw the grave, I’m , I think I the idea of a God that would have been looking at us and be , man, this is funny as hell, let’s go, , let’s go get some more grapefruits and do it again, , and laugh about it, , yeah, we’re gonna get in trouble later, but , whatever, , and so I mean, hopefully it gets around to , what is success to me is living a life that, where we’re gonna need a little trouble sometimes, we’re gonna fail, we’re gonna make mistakes, and , but I love the idea of the guy waking up, opens his eyes, closes eyes, takes a breath. Am I living my vision? , and my vision is to to live this adventurous life, and , we’ve got however much time we’ve got here, and I want to soak it up for all it’s worth, and whether that’s tracking lions or going for a walk around the neighborhood, I want to just take it all in, and I think that that’s that’s that’s where it aligns for me, for sure.

  Patrick Francey: I love it, I love it. What a great, what a great story, and great. We start to wind down, and yeah, appreciate the time that you’ve spent.

  Patrick Francey: I was, I go into rapid fire questions that are not so rapid, often. That’s okay. Yeah, we’re not in a hurry, but are you ready for some questions?

  David Gerber: Okay, so he has a quote, you maybe have heard of it. This, the first one comes to mind, I might have another, but he says that life will present you with people and circumstances to reveal to you where you’re not yet free.

  David Gerber: yeah. And then, if I had to pick a second one. It’s one he said to me when he was actually was coaching me one time. He said, you’re you’re not a victim of circumstance, you’re only a victim of your own perspective, and that just just it that hit me, that hit between the eyes, and it’s changed how I see the world.

  Patrick Francey: Yeah, Peter’s so good, the just, yeah, he’s great. Favorite book, or a book that was pivotal in your life, one that you maybe to refer or share as a gift, maybe something impactful book.

  David Gerber: Yeah, and this will be, this will be on brand for me. One of my favorite people on the planet is a guy named Boyd Vardy, and so he actually wrote a book called The Lion Tracker’s Guide to Life, which had a lot to do with my, my, , development and growth and love of lions, and I hired him to coach me for a bit, and just he’s such a delightful human, and he was trying to say there, oh, and he was so pivotal in connecting me with the trackers that I work with now, I just.. I’m so grateful for his generosity. He just opened up his world over in Africa to me, because he’s from South Africa, and I was working on navigating word about tracking and stuff that, and he’s just been so generous. So, I’d say that book.. and try and think.. if a second one.. , our company wrote a book called. Beyond high performance, which I think I really, it’s really, it’s a, it’s really good. We’ve been really proud of it, and it’s created so much work for us, because it’s a great, , entry point for people if they’re interested in this work, . Obviously, there’s my book that we’ll talk about, but, but that book is a great, , entry point to the coaching work in the coaching world that we do, and yeah, I’m really, really enjoy it as well. Yeah,

  David Gerber: Whew, , it’s.. it’s funny. I feel my genres, they changed so much, right? So, I.. I listen sometimes, I’ll listen to a lot of, , writing background lyrical music, or, sorry, non-lyrical music, lo-fi stuff that, but man, I’ll get down with super poppy stuff. , I love some Taylor Swift, I love some Justin Bieber, ? I can, I can spread pretty, a pretty wide net with it, and it really just depends on what mood I’m in. I’m almost always in the mood for Leon Bridges Leon Bridges,v

  David Gerber: yeah, I’ve seen him in concert a few times. I love, I love Trevor Hall, so I’d say probably by default I’ll go to Leon Bridges, Trevor Hall, and then I’ll just throw in a bunch of other random stuff,

  Patrick Francey: I hang out with people, I’ll be talking to them somewhere at an event or out in the street, doesn’t matter. And I’ll be in conversation with them, and they’ll all of a sudden go, “Oh, that’s such a great song, and I’m going, “What are you talking about? , I’m not even hearing it, ? Yeah, music files are really wired their brains that way. It’s quite interesting, very

  David Gerber: I would say Interstellar is very high on my list. I’ve watched it probably 12 or 13 times. , Christopher Nolan is a director. His ability to weave so many themes together, and all I talk with my CEO, Jason, about it. He loves to pick apart, , not pick apart, but dissect movies in a beautiful way to extract the meaning from them, and I remember I loved the movie before I talked to him, and then him and I had a conversation about it, and I was , I love this movie 10 times more, I was , he talks about the scene with McConaughey and his daughter in the room when he’s gonna leave, and all that’s happening there, and I was , dude, I missed 90% of that, I was , holy moly, this is incredible, so yeah, Interstellars, I mean, I’m I’m a huge Christopher Nolan fan, so Dark Knight with Heath Ledger was one of my favorites,

  David Gerber: and even just the richness of the dialog in those movies is mind blowing to me, so obviously I can, I can rock with some of the basics, Braveheart and Gladiator, Love Those, Lord of the Rings, all that fun stuff, but, but Interstellar is probably one of my main go-to movies that I love.

  David Gerber: Let’s do that again tomorrow, . I want to imagine him having a big smile on his face, , and saying, “Hey, it’s good to see you. Something chill that, .

  David Gerber: man? , I’m grateful that I’m healthy. I’m going to fly to Nashville here in a bit for an event around book stuff with my publisher. I’m grateful I can get on a plane and fly, , I don’t know how many, a couple 1000 miles over to Nashville. Grateful for my dog, it just brings so much joy to my life.

  Patrick Francey: you. I am grateful for my dogs, but I’m also very grateful for my family, and the opportunities I get to do what I do on my podcast again to meet individuals yourself and to have these kinds of conversations. So, thanks again for joining me, and I’m sure we’ll cross paths again sometime.

  Patrick Francey: ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for listening. If you found value in the podcast, please take the time to rate and review and share with others, share with your friends, as it is my goal to always improve and to provide the highest value for you, the listener. If you have any comments, suggestions, or questions you’d answered, please email me at ceo@raincanada.com that’s CEO@reincanada.com I look forward to hearing from you, and until next time