Episode Full Transcript

Length: 01:19:39
Host: Patrick Francey
Guest: Dana Samuelson

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• [00:00] Patrick Francey

  Hi there, and welcome to The Everyday Millionaire Podcast. My name is Patrick Francey, and I want to begin by thanking you for listening.

  On this show, I have conversations with seemingly ordinary individuals who have achieved extraordinary results in business and life. My goal is to help you learn, grow, and be inspired as my guests share how they’ve navigated challenges, overcome obstacles, and celebrated success.

  Today’s conversation is all about money, but perhaps not in the way you might expect.

  We live in a world where currency can be created with a few keystrokes. Government debt continues to rise, and inflation quietly erodes purchasing power. So perhaps the better question isn’t simply, “Should I buy gold or silver?” It’s, “What kind of money do I actually trust?”

  My guest today is Dana Samuelson, Founder and President of American Gold Exchange. Dana launched the company in 1998, near the bottom of the last major gold cycle, and has spent more than 45 years in the precious metals industry.

  He began working in the vault, literally handling precious metals before becoming a senior trader and buyer in the rare coin and bullion markets. During his career he has purchased tens of millions of dollars in precious metals.

  What makes Dana especially interesting isn’t simply his knowledge of gold and silver. It’s his understanding of market psychology, economic history, risk management, and the practical realities of owning physical precious metals.

  This conversation matters because gold is no longer a niche topic reserved for people preparing for the end of the world. Central banks are buying record amounts. Countries like China and India have long embraced precious metals as stores of wealth. Silver now sits at the intersection of monetary value and growing industrial demand.

  As debt continues to expand, currencies weaken, and confidence in traditional financial systems is tested, more investors are asking where real wealth should be held.

  Today we’ll discuss gold, silver, physical ownership, counterparty risk, what beginners should understand before buying, and why precious metals may be moving back toward the centre of serious financial planning.

  So without further delay, let’s get started.

• [02:57] Patrick Francey

  Dana Samuelson, welcome to The Everyday Millionaire Podcast.

• ---

  [02:59] Dana Samuelson

  Thank you, Patrick. It’s great to be here. Thanks for having me.

• ---

  [03:01] Patrick Francey

  I’m really looking forward to this conversation.

  I first started investing in precious metals around 2008. After the financial crisis, monetary policy changed dramatically, and that pushed me to start learning more about gold and silver. Based on what I was reading and the people I was following, it simply made sense.

  I invested fairly heavily at the time, then life settled down and I stepped away from it for a while. But when everything changed again in March of 2020, my interest came back even stronger, and I’ve continued adding both gold and silver ever since.

  Let’s start with the big picture.

  When we look at today’s global economy, we see wars, geopolitical instability, massive government spending, and continued money creation. From your perspective, how do you see the current economic environment, and where do precious metals fit into it?

• ---

  [04:39] Dana Samuelson

  Your path is actually very typical.

  People generally become interested in precious metals when they’re concerned or uncertain about what’s happening economically.

  The Global Financial Crisis frightened everyone. It felt like the wheels were coming off the bus. After that, we experienced a long period where economies stabilized and people became more comfortable again.

  Then COVID arrived, bringing another explosion of government debt.

  That’s really been the primary driver behind gold reaching record highs over the past year. Gold has closely tracked the expansion of global debt.

  Gold also tends to climb what people often call a wall of worry. Periods of uncertainty naturally increase demand.

  More recently, President Trump’s return to office and the introduction of tariffs much larger than many expected created significant uncertainty throughout global markets.

  When tariffs on China reached 145 percent, Chinese investors responded by aggressively buying gold. The price climbed from just under $3,000 an ounce to roughly $3,500 in only a few weeks.

  Later, tariffs affecting India contributed to a significant increase in silver demand. India responded with a buying spree that helped push silver prices substantially higher.

  Those events created fear and uncertainty around global trade.

  Investors began questioning the strength of the U.S. dollar and Treasury securities. Gold and silver gained momentum, and eventually that momentum developed into a fear of missing out, driving prices to speculative highs.

  Today we’re experiencing what I’d call a normal consolidation phase after a significant run.

  We’ve seen this pattern before after previous bull markets in 2008 through 2011, and again following COVID.

  Ultimately, the biggest driver remains debt.

  Gold and silver cannot be created as quickly as governments create currency.

  Over the last twenty years, governments around the world have become exceptionally good at creating new money, and global debt has reached historic levels.

  The result isn’t necessarily that gold has become dramatically more valuable.

  It’s that the purchasing power of fiat currencies has steadily declined.

• ---

  [10:06] Patrick Francey

  I think that’s one of the hardest concepts for many people to fully grasp.

  For the past twenty-five years I’ve been teaching people how to invest in real estate. I’ve always focused on cash flow and economic fundamentals.

  For a long time, it felt like real estate was the only conversation anyone wanted to have.

  Now we’re entering a very different environment.

  My own perspective has evolved. I no longer think of gold primarily as an investment.

  I think of it as insurance.

  To me, buying gold isn’t investing. It’s exchanging paper currency for real money.

  When I speak to audiences of real estate investors, I often ask how many own physical gold. Out of two hundred people, maybe one hand goes up.

  Retail investors still don’t seem particularly interested.

  How do you help people understand the difference between viewing gold as an investment versus viewing it as financial protection?

• ---

  [14:12] Dana Samuelson

  I actually think you’ve framed it exactly the right way.

  Most people immediately think about whether gold will go up in price.

  That’s the wrong starting point.

  Gold isn’t really an investment in the traditional sense.

  It’s financial insurance.

  If someone allocates five to ten percent of their overall assets to precious metals, that position can help offset uncertainty elsewhere in their portfolio.

  During the Global Financial Crisis, real estate declined, equities fell sharply, yet gold more than doubled.

  It acted as an effective hedge against losses in other asset classes.

  Gold is also an excellent long-term savings vehicle because it allows you to move purchasing power outside a depreciating currency.

  That said, it isn’t designed for short-term trading.

  Physical precious metals have transaction costs. Gold typically carries a buy and sell spread of around four to five percent. Silver has its own spreads as well.

  So the right mindset isn’t speculation.

  It’s protection.

  It’s savings.

  It’s preserving wealth over long periods.

• [14:12] Dana Samuelson

  I actually think you’ve framed it exactly the right way.

  Most people immediately think about whether gold will go up in price. That’s really the wrong way to approach it.

  Gold isn’t an investment in the traditional sense.

  It’s insurance.

  If you own a modest allocation, perhaps five to ten percent of your assets, it can provide a meaningful counterbalance when traditional investments come under pressure.

  Gold performed exactly as it should during the Global Financial Crisis. While real estate and equities were declining sharply, gold more than doubled in price. It offset losses elsewhere in many portfolios.

  It’s also an excellent long-term savings vehicle because you’re moving purchasing power out of a currency that continually loses value.

  It’s also an excellent long-term savings vehicle because you’re moving purchasing power out of a currency that continually loses value.

  Physical precious metals have transaction costs. Gold generally carries a buy and sell spread of around four or five percent. Silver has its own spreads as well.

  So I encourage people to think about gold as protection and savings rather than speculation.

• ---

  [15:45] Dana Samuelson

  Another important point is what’s happened globally over the past few years.

  After Russia invaded Ukraine and the United States froze Russian assets, many central banks began reassessing how much they wanted to rely on the U.S. dollar.

  That event changed the conversation.

  Central banks, particularly throughout the Global South, dramatically increased their gold purchases.

  By 2024, central bank buying had roughly doubled compared to previous years, and that became a meaningful driver of gold prices.

  When the most conservative financial institutions in the world are accumulating gold, they’re sending an important message.

  They’re hedging their exposure.

  They’re diversifying away from currencies and sovereign debt.

  Russia had already begun reducing its U.S. Treasury holdings years earlier after Crimea. By 2018, much of that capital had been redirected into gold.

  Now, does that mean the U.S. dollar is about to lose reserve currency status?

  No.

  The dollar remains deeply embedded in the global financial system, and replacing it wouldn’t be easy.

  But gold offers something few other assets can.

  It has no counterparty risk.

  Its value isn’t dependent on another party fulfilling an obligation.

  If you own rental property, you’re relying on tenants, financing, governments, insurers, and many other counterparties.

  Gold doesn’t produce cash flow, but it also doesn’t rely on anyone else’s promise.

  That’s one of its greatest strengths.

• ---

  [18:39] Dana Samuelson

  Gold also responds to real interest rates.

  If interest rates are five percent while inflation is three percent, investors are earning a positive real return, and gold generally becomes less attractive because it doesn’t produce income.

  But when inflation exceeds interest rates and real returns become negative, gold often performs very well.

  We’ve seen some unusual monetary policy over the last fifteen years.

  For an extended period, interest rates were effectively zero.

  Historically, that’s highly unusual.

  Policies like that have helped support precious metals because holding cash became much less rewarding.

• ---

  [20:20] Patrick Francey

  There are so many different directions we could take this conversation.

  When I first started buying precious metals, it was really about protecting purchasing power.

  Someone once said something to me that stuck.

  “If you have one ounce of gold in your pocket, you can go almost anywhere in the world and exchange it for local currency.”

  That idea changed my perspective.

  You’re no longer relying on one currency versus another. You’re holding something universally recognized.

  Gold has always been viewed as money.

  Silver has as well, although today silver also has enormous industrial demand.

  Between artificial intelligence, electric vehicles, solar technology, electronics, and modern manufacturing, silver has become increasingly important.

  That raises an interesting question.

  Should people think differently about gold and silver?

  Should gold primarily be viewed as money while silver functions more as an investment because of its industrial demand?

  How do you explain that distinction?

• ---

  [22:56] Dana Samuelson

  I actually think your framework is very good.

  Gold is roughly ninety percent monetary metal and perhaps ten percent industrial metal.

  Very little gold is consumed.

  Most of the gold ever mined still exists today in some form. It can be recovered, refined, and reused.

  Silver is very different.

  It’s probably about half monetary metal and half industrial commodity.

  It’s the most electrically conductive element we have.

  It’s used extensively in electronics, solar panels, electric vehicles, advanced manufacturing, and increasingly in artificial intelligence infrastructure.

  Demand continues to grow.

  The challenge is that silver is usually produced as a byproduct of mining other metals.

  You can’t simply decide to double silver production.

  Samsung has even developed silver-based battery technology capable of dramatically reducing charging times for electric vehicles.

  They’ve also invested directly in Mexican silver mines to help secure future supply.

  That’s a good illustration of where industrial demand is heading.

  Over the past several years, silver demand has consistently exceeded new supply.

  That doesn’t mean we’re out of silver.

  It means above-ground inventories continue shrinking.

  India has also become an increasingly important factor.

  Indian investors have embraced silver exchange traded funds, and more recently silver has become eligible as collateral for certain loans.

  Those developments have further increased demand.

  Silver is much more sensitive to changes in supply and demand than gold.

  Gold behaves more steadily.

  Silver can move much more dramatically, both higher and lower.

• ---

  [27:01] Dana Samuelson

  Right now we’re also dealing with geopolitical uncertainty.

  Energy markets remain volatile.

  Oil prices have risen sharply because of supply concerns.

  Interestingly, precious metals haven’t responded as dramatically as some people expected.

  My view is that we’re moving into an environment where economic growth slows while inflation remains elevated.

  If interest rates eventually begin falling, particularly if inflation stays above those rates, that could become another supportive environment for precious metals.

  During COVID, when governments responded with enormous amounts of monetary stimulus, I significantly increased my own holdings because we’d already seen how that type of environment had played out before.

• ---

  [28:13] Patrick Francey

  When COVID hit, I went in, as I like to say, uncomfortably heavy on precious metals.

  At one point I was paying close to fifty Canadian dollars an ounce for silver. I remember thinking, “Am I crazy paying this much?” At the time it felt expensive, but looking at today’s prices, it certainly looks different.

  One of the topics I hear discussed a lot is the idea of a silver shortage.

  I follow a number of respected people in the industry, including Andy Schectman and several technical analysts. I’ve learned not to accept every narrative at face value, but I do pay attention when I consistently hear the same themes emerging.

  So let me ask you directly.

  Are we actually seeing a shortage of silver? Is this something that’s genuinely developing, or is it being overstated?

• ---

  [30:09] Dana Samuelson

  That’s a great question.

  I know Andy well. We’re friendly competitors, and Andy has built much of his reputation discussing what could happen, whereas I tend to focus on what I believe is actually happening today.

  The market has experienced some unusual dislocations recently, but much of that was driven by uncertainty surrounding tariffs.

  The term you were looking for earlier is backwardation.

  Normally, futures contracts trade at a premium to the current price because of storage and financing costs. During backwardation, the opposite happens. Immediate delivery becomes more valuable than future delivery because buyers want the metal now.

  We experienced that last year.

  There was concern that precious metals might become subject to tariffs, so enormous quantities of gold and silver were moved from London, where much of the world’s bullion is traditionally stored, into COMEX vaults in New York.

  That movement created temporary shortages in London.

  At the same time, India’s demand for physical silver increased dramatically.

  As demand surged, premiums in London rose sharply because there simply wasn’t enough metal available in the right location.

  For a brief period, the London Bullion Market Association experienced delivery delays.

  Meanwhile, there was still plenty of silver sitting in New York.

  So the issue wasn’t that the world had run out of silver.

  It was that inventories had temporarily shifted to the wrong place.

  Today the market is functioning much more normally.

  Demand continues to grow, particularly because of industrial consumption, but I don’t believe we’ve reached the point where we’re facing a true global shortage.

  Could we eventually reach that point?

  Possibly.

  But I think we’re still several years away from a genuine structural crisis.

• ---

  [33:00] Dana Samuelson

  We’ve certainly seen periods where retail investors rushed into the market all at once.

  When fear takes over, physical inventories can become temporarily overwhelmed and premiums rise sharply.

  I’ve seen that happen several times during the past fifteen years.

  Interestingly, I rarely saw those kinds of retail buying waves during the first three decades of my career.

  So investor behaviour has definitely changed.

  But today’s market is operating in a fairly normal way.

• ---

  [34:16] Patrick Francey

  That’s interesting because, from the outside looking in, I probably wouldn’t have described today’s market as normal.

  Maybe what I’m reacting to is simply the amount of attention precious metals are receiving.

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  [34:41] Dana Samuelson

  Exactly.

  There’s an important distinction.

  Price volatility doesn’t necessarily mean the market itself is dysfunctional.

  Prices naturally become volatile after reaching record highs as buyers and sellers search for fair value.

  That’s very different from supply chains breaking down or markets failing to function properly.

  Operationally, today’s market is behaving much more normally than many headlines suggest.

• ---

  [35:04] Patrick Francey

  One phrase I’ve heard over the years is, “When everything else fails, governments take you to war.”

  Whether people see that as conspiracy or simply history repeating itself, it inevitably brings us back to monetary policy.

  Governments continue printing money.

  Canada is doing it.

  The United States continues expanding debt.

  At the same time, consumers experience inflation very differently than governments report it.

  Official inflation might be two or three percent, yet people go grocery shopping and discover many everyday items cost twice what they did only a few years ago.

  That’s the reality people experience.

  To me, that makes the case for holding precious metals even stronger.

  How do you see inflation affecting gold and silver going forward?

• ---

  [37:19] Dana Samuelson

  I think most people understand inflation simply by paying their grocery bill.

  I do most of the grocery shopping for my family.

  I know we’re buying noticeably less with the same amount of money than we were three or four years ago.

  We’re entering another inflationary period.

  The current situation is different from previous inflation cycles because much of it is being driven by energy prices and supply disruptions rather than consumer demand alone.

  That’s an important distinction.

  One thing that often surprises investors is that precious metals don’t always respond immediately.

  Sometimes gold actually falls during a crisis.

  People assume that shouldn’t happen, but there’s a simple explanation.

  When governments, institutions, or investors need immediate liquidity, they often sell their most liquid assets.

  Gold is one of the most liquid assets in the world.

  We’ve seen countries like Turkey sell gold reserves to raise cash.

  That doesn’t mean the long-term case for gold has changed.

  It simply reflects the need for liquidity during periods of stress.

  Looking ahead, I believe inflation will remain elevated.

  I’m not convinced higher interest rates solve an inflation problem that’s primarily driven by supply shortages.

  Instead, I think central banks will eventually find themselves lowering interest rates to support slowing economies.

  Historically, that’s been a constructive environment for precious metals.

  Personally, I’m continuing to accumulate gold and silver whenever prices pull back.

  I believe the long-term fundamentals remain intact.

• ---

  [40:11] Patrick Francey

  I think that’s excellent advice.

  People first need to develop their own investment thesis.

  Once they understand why they own precious metals, it becomes much easier to build a position gradually instead of reacting emotionally every time markets become volatile.

• ---

  [40:11] Patrick Francey

  I think that’s excellent advice.

  People first need to develop their own thesis. Once you’ve decided that precious metals belong in your portfolio, it’s much easier to build your position over time instead of reacting emotionally whenever the markets become volatile.

  Another thing I pay attention to is liquidity.

  We’re seeing it in real estate today. Some private REITs have restricted withdrawals because they simply don’t have the cash available.

  That’s one of the reasons I think precious metals deserve a place in a portfolio.

  Another signal I watch is what central banks are doing.

  They’ve been buying gold aggressively for years. If some of the largest and most conservative financial institutions in the world continue accumulating gold, I think it’s worth asking why.

  One thing I’ve wondered about is silver.

  We know central banks buy gold.

  Do governments hold silver as well?

• ---

  [41:54] Dana Samuelson

  That’s becoming more interesting.

  The United States recently designated silver as a strategic mineral.

  China also appears to be increasing its silver holdings. They’ve reportedly reduced exports while continuing to build domestic inventories.

  That makes sense when you consider China’s manufacturing capacity.

  They’re the world’s largest producer of solar panels, and silver is a critical component in that technology.

  With higher energy prices making renewable energy more attractive, securing long-term supplies of silver becomes strategically important.

  The reality is there isn’t an unlimited supply of above-ground silver available.

  If governments, manufacturers, and investors all decide they want significantly more silver at the same time, prices could move much higher.

  Think about your smartphone.

  It contains only a relatively small amount of silver, but that silver is essential. If the price of silver doubled, it would have very little impact on the overall cost of the phone.

  The manufacturer would simply pay more because they have no practical substitute.

  Silver is one of those materials you simply have to have.

  Copper can replace it in some applications, but not many.

  That’s why people like Rick Rule have been making the case for industrial metals for years.

  As countries continue expanding infrastructure and electrification, demand is only going to increase.

• ---

  [44:03] Patrick Francey

  Let’s shift gears a little.

  Suppose someone listening has never owned precious metals before.

  They’ve heard everything we’ve discussed today and they’re thinking, “Maybe I should own some.”

  Where do they begin?

  When I started, I focused almost entirely on one-ounce Canadian Maple Leafs and American Gold Buffalos.

  But people quickly discover there are bars, coins, collector coins, numismatic products, and all sorts of other options.

  How should a beginner approach buying physical precious metals?

• ---

  [45:13] Dana Samuelson

  For most investors, I recommend keeping it very simple.

  There are two broad categories.

  The first is bullion products.

  These include bars produced by private refineries and sovereign-minted coins produced by national mints.

  The second category is collectible or numismatic coins.

  For someone who’s simply trying to preserve wealth, I believe sovereign-minted bullion coins are the best place to start.

  Over the past several years we’ve seen increasing numbers of sophisticated counterfeits coming out of China.

  That prompted many of the world’s government mints to introduce advanced security features that are extremely difficult to duplicate.

  For example, the Royal Canadian Mint added microscopic security marks to Maple Leaf coins.

  They’re almost impossible to replicate accurately without specialized equipment.

  The U.S. Mint and several other sovereign mints have implemented similar anti-counterfeiting measures.

  That’s why I generally recommend products such as:

  • American Gold Eagles
  • American Gold Buffalos
  • Canadian Maple Leafs
  • Austrian Philharmonics

  These are among the most recognized bullion coins in the world.

  If you buy them through a reputable dealer, they’re easy to authenticate and easy to sell.

• ---

  [47:45] Dana Samuelson

  One thing I’d emphasize is choosing the dealer just as carefully as you choose the product.

  Today, anyone can build a professional-looking website.

  That doesn’t necessarily mean they have experience or integrity.

  Look for businesses that have operated successfully for many years.

  Look at the people behind the company.

  Our reputation is everything.

  If we lose our integrity, we’ve lost our business.

  That’s why established dealers spend so much time verifying products, testing metals, and protecting their clients.

  For most investors, the straightforward approach is usually the best.

  Buy well-known sovereign bullion coins through an established dealer and avoid overcomplicating the process.

• ---

  [49:36] Patrick Francey

  Storage is another question people often ask.

  Personally, I don’t like the idea of keeping significant amounts of precious metals at home.

  Part of that is security.

  The other part is convenience.

  If I decide to sell some gold, I’d rather be able to make one phone call than worry about physically transporting it somewhere.

  Is that a reasonable way to think about storage?

• ---

  [50:53] Dana Samuelson

  Mostly, yes.

  The only thing I’d change is this.

  I generally don’t recommend storing precious metals with the dealer who sold them to you.

  History has shown that if a dealer runs into financial trouble, clients can sometimes become exposed.

  Instead, I prefer independent professional storage facilities.

  Not bank safety deposit boxes.

  Independent vaulting companies whose sole business is secure storage.

  That way your assets remain completely separate.

  Your dealer can still help facilitate transactions, but your metals aren’t sitting on the dealer’s balance sheet.

  That significantly reduces counterparty risk.

• ---

  [52:01] Patrick Francey

  So essentially you’re talking about independent vaulting facilities, companies like Brinks or Loomis, where ownership remains completely separate from the dealer.

• ---

  [52:10] Dana Samuelson

  Exactly.

  You maintain your own account.

  If you decide to buy additional metals or sell part of your holdings, ownership simply transfers between accounts within the vault.

  The metals never need to leave the facility.

  It makes transactions much simpler while maintaining security.

  Dealers can also help with insured shipping when physical delivery is required.

  Most individuals don’t have access to the types of insurance or logistics available to established precious metals firms.

  That’s another advantage of building a long-term relationship with a reputable dealer.

  When you need assistance, they’ll already know you and understand your situation.

• [53:49] Patrick Francey

  Let me ask you a question that comes up quite often whenever people talk about precious metals.

  Suppose we really did experience some kind of major financial disruption. Whether it’s a cyberattack, widespread banking issues, or something even more extreme.

  People often say, “That’s fine, but what are you actually going to do with an ounce of gold? You’re not buying a loaf of bread with it.”

  How do you respond to that?

• ---

  [55:06] Dana Samuelson

  It’s a fair question.

  Gold represents portable wealth.

  It’s compact, highly valuable, and easily transferable.

  That said, because of its value, an ounce of gold isn’t necessarily practical for everyday transactions.

  That’s where silver becomes much more useful.

  Silver is far more divisible and practical if people ever found themselves bartering.

  When I started American Gold Exchange in 1998, there were widespread concerns about Y2K.

  People were buying gold and silver because they were worried computer systems would fail.

  The most common question I heard was exactly this one.

  “What happens if everything stops working?”

  My answer then is the same as it is today.

  If we ever found ourselves in that kind of situation, we’d all be negotiating with whatever assets we had available.

  Some people might trade food.

  Others might trade fuel.

  Someone else might trade precious metals.

  The important point is that physical gold and silver retain intrinsic value regardless of what happens to a particular currency.

• ---

  [56:14] Patrick Francey

  My own thinking has always been similar.

  Even if we experienced a significant disruption, eventually people would begin exchanging precious metals for whatever form of currency or goods were accepted at the time.

  The difference is that the value of the metal would have adjusted along with the purchasing power of that currency.

• ---

  [57:05] Dana Samuelson

  Exactly.

  Or people may simply barter directly.

  The point is that precious metals give you options.

• ---

  [57:17] Patrick Francey

  Let me ask a broader question.

  When you look at everything happening globally, are you optimistic?

  It’s difficult not to notice the rising debt, geopolitical conflict, inflation, and the growing divide between countries.

  Sometimes it feels as though 2020 marked a turning point.

  At the same time, we still have to build businesses, invest, raise families, and plan for the future.

  When you look ahead, are you optimistic?

• ---

  [58:31] Dana Samuelson

  I am.

  I’m naturally optimistic.

  I have tremendous confidence in humanity’s ability to solve problems.

  Where I’m less optimistic is in how governments manage money.

  I think we’ve made a number of poor financial decisions over many years, and that’s created many of the challenges we’re discussing today.

  But history also shows that people adapt.

  We innovate.

  We overcome enormous obstacles.

  We’ll probably experience some significant bumps along the way, but I believe we’ll ultimately work through them.

  I’m friends with Robert Kiyosaki.

  Robert often jokes that he enjoys talking with real estate investors because they’re generally optimistic.

  Then he talks with gold investors, who tend to expect the worst.

  I like standing somewhere in the middle.

  I don’t consider myself a doom-and-gloom person.

  I’ve been fortunate.

  I’ve had a wonderful career.

  I’ve been blessed to live in one of the best countries in the world during an extraordinary period of human history.

  What concerns me isn’t humanity.

  It’s our financial system.

  We continue accumulating debt without allowing markets to correct naturally.

  During both the Global Financial Crisis and COVID, governments stepped in with enormous intervention.

  That prevented some failures that probably should have happened.

  Instead, many underlying problems were simply postponed.

  Eventually those imbalances have to be addressed.

  I wish governments exercised more financial discipline than they do today.

• ---

  [1:00:32] Patrick Francey

  I think that’s an important distinction.

  Politicians make decisions that often have long-term consequences, yet they’re rarely held accountable for those outcomes.

  That’s frustrating.

  When I present economic data, I occasionally get labelled as being negative or pessimistic.

  I don’t see it that way.

  I’m simply looking at the facts.

  Economic cycles create opportunities.

  Whether we’re talking about real estate, precious metals, or any other asset class, understanding what’s actually happening allows us to make better decisions.

  Rather than becoming discouraged, I prefer asking, “Where is the opportunity?”

  For me, one of those opportunities is holding some allocation to precious metals.

  Not because I know exactly what’s going to happen, but because they provide another layer of financial resilience.

  Whether inflation rises, currencies weaken, interest rates change, or the global economy shifts, I think precious metals deserve serious consideration.

  That’s really why I wanted to have this conversation today.

  Is there anything you’d add before we move on?

• ---

  [1:03:23] Dana Samuelson

  Only that perspective matters.

  People of different generations often have very different expectations.

  Someone my age remembers when five or six percent interest rates were perfectly normal.

  Someone in their thirties may think near-zero interest rates are normal because that’s largely what they’ve experienced.

  I think it’s important to stay grounded in historical perspective.

  That’s one thing I appreciate about your approach.

  You’re looking at the data.

  You’re trying to understand what’s actually happening rather than reacting emotionally.

  Unfortunately, I don’t think mainstream media encourages enough of that kind of thinking today.

• [1:04:08] Patrick Francey

  Before we wrap up, I’d love to learn a little more about your own journey.

  You’ve spent more than four decades in the precious metals business. Tell us how it all began.

• ---

  [1:04:21] Dana Samuelson

  I graduated from college in 1980 with a degree in German. It wasn’t exactly a career plan. I changed majors halfway through university because it was the only way I could graduate with my class.

  As it turned out, graduating with a German degree in 1980 didn’t make me particularly employable.

  Fortunately, my older brother had already been in the precious metals business for several years.

  He helped me get my first job working in a vault.

  I was literally counting coins, weighing shipments, packaging orders, and learning the business from the ground up.

  Looking back, it was the best education I could have received.

  After a couple of years, I had the opportunity to join Jim Blanchard’s company.

  Jim was one of the most influential people in the precious metals industry. He played a major role in restoring private gold ownership in the United States after it became legal again in 1974.

  I started as a coin appraiser.

  Back then there weren’t independent grading services, so my job was to evaluate the condition and quality of rare U.S. gold and silver coins.

  Eventually I began helping on the trading desk whenever someone was away.

  One day my boss asked me, “Do you want to spend your career in the vault, or do you want to come work with me?”

  That decision changed everything.

  For the next several years I was responsible for buying millions of dollars’ worth of coins and precious metals from dealers around the country.

  It allowed me to build relationships throughout the industry that still exist today.

• ---

  [1:08:00] Dana Samuelson

  Eventually I started thinking about building my own company.

  I tried a couple of different business ventures that didn’t quite work out.

  Then my brother was killed in a car accident.

  He wasn’t just my brother.

  He was my mentor and my best friend.

  For a while I was afraid to start my own business.

  After losing him, I realized something important.

  The worst thing I could imagine had already happened.

  Starting a business suddenly didn’t seem nearly as frightening.

  So in 1998, during the uncertainty surrounding Y2K, I founded American Gold Exchange.

  Those early years were challenging, but people were looking for trusted guidance.

  Over time we built lasting relationships with clients.

  The business grew steadily.

  Looking back, none of it happened overnight.

  It was a very organic journey.

• ---

  [1:09:12] Dana Samuelson

  Another decision I’m proud of was how we built our team.

  Most of the people who work with me have been here fifteen or twenty years.

  That wasn’t an accident.

  I wanted to surround myself with people I trusted and genuinely enjoyed working with.

  You spend more waking hours with your colleagues than almost anyone else.

  So creating the right culture mattered.

  When life happens, family comes first.

  We’ll support each other.

  That philosophy has served us well over the years.

• ---

  [1:10:36] Patrick Francey

  I love that story.

  One question I often ask entrepreneurs is whether entrepreneurship comes from nature or nurture.

  Did you grow up in an entrepreneurial family, or did that develop later in life?

• ---

  [1:11:22] Dana Samuelson

  My parents weren’t entrepreneurs.

  My father worked as an accountant for Shell Oil.

  So I didn’t grow up in a business-owning household.

  But I learned an incredible amount from Jim Blanchard.

  Watching him build his company taught me what entrepreneurship looked like.

  By the time I started my own business, I’d already learned almost every aspect of the industry.

  The only thing holding me back was fear.

  Once I got past that, I realized I wasn’t really afraid of failing.

  I knew I’d find my footing somehow.

  I’ve always been persistent.

  When I decide something matters, I stay with it until I figure it out.

  That determination served me well in sports, and it eventually served me well in business too.

  More than anything, I wanted the freedom to control my own future.

  That became my motivation for becoming an entrepreneur.

• ---

  Rapid Fire Questions

• ---

  [1:13:40] Patrick Francey

  Let’s finish with a few rapid-fire questions.

  Apple or Android?

• ---

  [1:13:44] Dana Samuelson

  Apple.

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  [1:13:45] Patrick Francey

  Favourite swear word?

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  [1:13:54] Dana Samuelson

  Shit.

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  [1:14:00] Patrick Francey

  That’s actually pretty tame.

  Most guests go straight to the F-word.

  Do you have a favourite quote?

• ---

  [1:14:09] Dana Samuelson

  One I use in my own business is:

  “We say what we do, and we do what we say.”

  That’s how I’ve tried to live my life.

  If I tell someone I’ll do something, I do it.

  In our business, people regularly complete transactions worth hundreds of thousands, sometimes millions of dollars, over the phone.

  Your word has to mean something.

  Another quote I’ve always liked is from J.P. Morgan:

  “Gold is money. Everything else is credit.”

• ---

  [1:14:40] Patrick Francey

  Favourite book?

• ---

  [1:14:50] Dana Samuelson

  Rich Dad Poor Dad.

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  [1:14:53] Patrick Francey

  That answer doesn’t surprise me.

  It’s probably the single most recommended book I’ve heard from guests on this show.

  For so many investors and entrepreneurs, it represents a genuine turning point in how they think about money.

• ---

  [1:15:20] Patrick Francey

  Dana, this has been a fascinating conversation.

  I appreciate not only your knowledge but also your balanced perspective.

  This wasn’t a conversation about fear.

  It was really a conversation about preparation, financial resilience, and understanding how different assets can play different roles inside a portfolio.

  Thank you for sharing your experience and your journey with us.

• ---

  [1:15:50] Dana Samuelson

  Thank you, Patrick.

  I really enjoyed the conversation.

• ---

  [1:16:00] Patrick Francey

  Thanks for listening to The Everyday Millionaire Podcast.

  If you enjoyed today’s episode, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone you think would benefit from the conversation.

  Until next time, take care.